7 ms·

That may be true, but most of the devices on that list are either old or not devices people actually want to use. Apple, Samsung, Lenovo (Motorola), and LG comb

That may be true, but most of the devices on that list are either old or not devices people actually want to use. Apple, Samsung, Lenovo (Motorola), and LG combined make up 94% of the market share in the US, while others make up only 6% [1]. Of these, only Motorola seems to allow bootloader unlocking. Samsung locks bootloaders on all US smartphones (though international versions reportedly aren't locked) and uses proprietary "download mode" instead of fastboot mode. [1] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh...

hagbard_c 5y ago
Going down the list: - Apple: next... - Samsung: supports unlocking the bootloader (enable developer options, enable OEM unlock, boot into download mode and follow the on-screen instructions for "Unlock Bootloader") - LG: supports unlocking the bootloader (see http://developer.lge.com/resource/mobile/RetrieveBootloader.dev http://developer.lge.com/resource/mobile/RetrieveBootloader....) - Lenovo: supports unlocking the bootloader (see https://www.zui.com/iunlock https://www.zui.com/iunlock) - Motorola: supports unlocking the bootloader (see http://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/unlock-your-device-a http://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bo...) In other words, all devices in your list support unlocking the bootloader. I've used devices from many different manufacturers from around 2010 onwards, none of them run vendor distributions. It used to be difficult to install new distributions but this has not been the case for more recent devices. I'm in Europe but often source devices from elsewhere since they are not 'officially' sold here.
- NotPractical 5y ago
  > Samsung As I said, bootloader unlocking is not supported on any modern US Samsung phone with a Snapdragon SoC. [1] It is at least """nice""" that they allow unlocking the international models though. (Perhaps the EU legally requires this?) > LG The site you linked says this: > we offer a method to unlock the bootloader on some of our devices Looking at the list, we see that many LG phones are excluded for some reason. Also, LG doesn't sell phones anymore. [3] > Lenovo/Motorola That's nice, but unlocking the bootloader requires visiting this website, entering your serial number, and voiding your warranty, which means most people won't do it. Unlocking your Pixel phone's bootloader does not void the warranty, and all you have to do is enable "OEM unlocking" in developer options, rather than visit some website that tries its hardest to convince you that bootloader unlocking is scary and you shouldn't do it. [1] https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/3902961/#post-78960111 https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/3902961/#post-78960111 (Spoiler alert: no, the US model S10 is not unlockable. [2]) [2] https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/4085447/#post-82345735 https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/4085447/#post-82345735 [3] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/after-a-decade-of-failure-lg-officially-quits-the-smartphone-market/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/after-a-decade-of-fa...
  - cute_boi 5y ago
    Well EU is one reason to not unlock the phone. Due to their law banking app requires some google safety net which means if we root our phone our bank app wont work. And many app which uses safety net might not work. (I know magisk might make it work but its icky when the opponent is Google). Regarding unlocking I think Chinese phones like Xiomi, Oneplus are better. We just need to provide phone number (so that distributor can't abuse it so I think its fair) and using fast-boot we can unlock it. And we can go back if we want so AFAIK warranty doesn't gets void due to unlocking as long as we can re flash stock firmware. Pixel phones are also better for unlocking but they come with premium price.
    - folmar 5y ago
      > EU ... law ... banking app requires some google safety net AFAIK it's not the law. The law only says the banks should adopt adequate safety measures, and they do safety net as it's easy and customers don't care, as there is usually a backup plan of just using the website (apart from a few novelty banks like N26).
    - cmeacham98 5y ago
      Unlocking your phone does not fail safetynet. Installing a custom ROM _can_ cause a safetynet failure, but it is possible for ROM developers to pass it. In other words, for most phones, safetynet shouldn't be a major barrier to unlocking. Rooting, on the other hand, does trip safetynet unless you take extra steps to hide it.
      - NotPractical 5y ago
        Tragically, Google is gradually moving to hardware-backed attestation, which is nearly impossible to bypass in most cases: https://www.xda-developers.com/safetynet-hardware-attestation-feature-here-to-stay/ https://www.xda-developers.com/safetynet-hardware-attestatio... SafetyNet is, of course, anti-user and unacceptable. Random developers on the Play Store have the audacity to demand that you use a Google-approved OS on your phone if you want to use their apps. But "Google-approved" just means "proprietary". For example, GrapheneOS is leaps and bounds more secure than any Samsung ROM, yet Samsung's ROMs are Google-approved, and GrapheneOS is not. Google also releases vanilla AOSP builds for Pixel phones without Google apps, but these are not "Google-approved" according to SafetyNet, either. Besides, no corporation should get to influence what OS you choose to run on your device. As the user, you should make the decision whether to trust a custom OS or not on your own. That's how it works on PCs. You are warned of the risks at every stage of the process of installing a custom ROM, from the moment you enable "OEM unlocking" in developer settings. You're even greeted with a non-hideable warning to remind you that the OS is not OEM every bootup [1]. (I think this is good, by the way. It also protects those buying used phones, which is another silly argument I've heard in favor of SafetyNet. IMHO, if you continue using a phone that warns you every bootup that it's unsafe, you deserve to be hacked.) Google says they're doing all this for the sake of user security, but I find it very suspicious that it also happens to make de-Googling your phone much harder (if you rely on apps that rely on SafetyNet, like most Android banking apps). [1] https://source.android.com/security/images/boot_yellow1.png https://source.android.com/security/images/boot_yellow1.png
commoner 5y ago
In the global smartphone market, the leading Android manufacturers are Samsung (22%), Xiaomi (14%), Oppo (11%), and Vivo (10%). Affecting these percentages: Apple (17%) and other (26%). https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... Among the named manufacturers, Samsung (excluding U.S.) and Xiaomi sell phones with unlockable bootloaders. In the U.S., OnePlus is the most popular phone brand with unlockable bootloaders. Google takes second place.

hagbard_c 5y ago

Going down the list: - Apple: next... - Samsung: supports unlocking the bootloader (enable developer options, enable OEM unlock, boot into download mode and follow the on-screen instructions for "Unlock Bootloader") - LG: supports unlocking the bootloader (see http://developer.lge.com/resource/mobile/RetrieveBootloader.dev http://developer.lge.com/resource/mobile/RetrieveBootloader....) - Lenovo: supports unlocking the bootloader (see https://www.zui.com/iunlock https://www.zui.com/iunlock) - Motorola: supports unlocking the bootloader (see http://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/unlock-your-device-a http://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bo...) In other words, all devices in your list support unlocking the bootloader. I've used devices from many different manufacturers from around 2010 onwards, none of them run vendor distributions. It used to be difficult to install new distributions but this has not been the case for more recent devices. I'm in Europe but often source devices from elsewhere since they are not 'officially' sold here.

NotPractical 5y ago
> Samsung As I said, bootloader unlocking is not supported on any modern US Samsung phone with a Snapdragon SoC. [1] It is at least """nice""" that they allow unlocking the international models though. (Perhaps the EU legally requires this?) > LG The site you linked says this: > we offer a method to unlock the bootloader on some of our devices Looking at the list, we see that many LG phones are excluded for some reason. Also, LG doesn't sell phones anymore. [3] > Lenovo/Motorola That's nice, but unlocking the bootloader requires visiting this website, entering your serial number, and voiding your warranty, which means most people won't do it. Unlocking your Pixel phone's bootloader does not void the warranty, and all you have to do is enable "OEM unlocking" in developer options, rather than visit some website that tries its hardest to convince you that bootloader unlocking is scary and you shouldn't do it. [1] https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/3902961/#post-78960111 https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/3902961/#post-78960111 (Spoiler alert: no, the US model S10 is not unlockable. [2]) [2] https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/4085447/#post-82345735 https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/4085447/#post-82345735 [3] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/after-a-decade-of-failure-lg-officially-quits-the-smartphone-market/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/after-a-decade-of-fa...
- cute_boi 5y ago
  Well EU is one reason to not unlock the phone. Due to their law banking app requires some google safety net which means if we root our phone our bank app wont work. And many app which uses safety net might not work. (I know magisk might make it work but its icky when the opponent is Google). Regarding unlocking I think Chinese phones like Xiomi, Oneplus are better. We just need to provide phone number (so that distributor can't abuse it so I think its fair) and using fast-boot we can unlock it. And we can go back if we want so AFAIK warranty doesn't gets void due to unlocking as long as we can re flash stock firmware. Pixel phones are also better for unlocking but they come with premium price.
  - folmar 5y ago
    > EU ... law ... banking app requires some google safety net AFAIK it's not the law. The law only says the banks should adopt adequate safety measures, and they do safety net as it's easy and customers don't care, as there is usually a backup plan of just using the website (apart from a few novelty banks like N26).
  - cmeacham98 5y ago
    Unlocking your phone does not fail safetynet. Installing a custom ROM _can_ cause a safetynet failure, but it is possible for ROM developers to pass it. In other words, for most phones, safetynet shouldn't be a major barrier to unlocking. Rooting, on the other hand, does trip safetynet unless you take extra steps to hide it.
    - NotPractical 5y ago
      Tragically, Google is gradually moving to hardware-backed attestation, which is nearly impossible to bypass in most cases: https://www.xda-developers.com/safetynet-hardware-attestation-feature-here-to-stay/ https://www.xda-developers.com/safetynet-hardware-attestatio... SafetyNet is, of course, anti-user and unacceptable. Random developers on the Play Store have the audacity to demand that you use a Google-approved OS on your phone if you want to use their apps. But "Google-approved" just means "proprietary". For example, GrapheneOS is leaps and bounds more secure than any Samsung ROM, yet Samsung's ROMs are Google-approved, and GrapheneOS is not. Google also releases vanilla AOSP builds for Pixel phones without Google apps, but these are not "Google-approved" according to SafetyNet, either. Besides, no corporation should get to influence what OS you choose to run on your device. As the user, you should make the decision whether to trust a custom OS or not on your own. That's how it works on PCs. You are warned of the risks at every stage of the process of installing a custom ROM, from the moment you enable "OEM unlocking" in developer settings. You're even greeted with a non-hideable warning to remind you that the OS is not OEM every bootup [1]. (I think this is good, by the way. It also protects those buying used phones, which is another silly argument I've heard in favor of SafetyNet. IMHO, if you continue using a phone that warns you every bootup that it's unsafe, you deserve to be hacked.) Google says they're doing all this for the sake of user security, but I find it very suspicious that it also happens to make de-Googling your phone much harder (if you rely on apps that rely on SafetyNet, like most Android banking apps). [1] https://source.android.com/security/images/boot_yellow1.png https://source.android.com/security/images/boot_yellow1.png

commoner 5y ago

In the global smartphone market, the leading Android manufacturers are Samsung (22%), Xiaomi (14%), Oppo (11%), and Vivo (10%). Affecting these percentages: Apple (17%) and other (26%). https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... Among the named manufacturers, Samsung (excluding U.S.) and Xiaomi sell phones with unlockable bootloaders. In the U.S., OnePlus is the most popular phone brand with unlockable bootloaders. Google takes second place.