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Very grateful that my employer has committed to remaining flexible with remote work. Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the indivi

Very grateful that my employer has committed to remaining flexible with remote work. Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the individual. Full time remote has done wonders for my health - instead of a 2 hour commute I get to exercise. Instead of coming home stressed, annoyed, and sitting in front of the TV, I go outside for a solid hour+ after I close my laptop. I travel more liberally now that I don’t have to take time off to do so. My quality of life has never been better, and my gratefulness translates into feelings of loyalty towards my employer. Why would I quit if I’m treated well and have a nice work life balance? Why would I risk this situation by slacking off when I am on the clock? Prior to the remote shift, I was unhappy and I didn’t even realize. No exercise, no passion outside of work. All my energy went into my 10+ hour day (when you consider the commute). Since then I’ve lost 30lbs, become enamored with new sports and hobbies, and my social life outside of work exists again. I feel more “alive” than I have in a decade. I’ll never work for a company that doesn’t allow me that flexibility for the rest of my career, as long as I can help it. Companies that want access to good talent would be wise to follow this example.

gaws 5y ago
> Very grateful that my employer has committed to remaining flexible with remote work. Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the individual. imagine working for an employer that treats you like a human being.
novaRom 5y ago
Even now in October you wake up in the darkness, and it's dark again at 4 pm here. When WFH you can decide flexibly what time is the best for you for an hour of outside activity. You can go out at noon to enjoy few minutes of gentle sunshine. Then, being recharged it feels awesome and the total productivity is great.
sbarre 5y ago
> Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the individual. I feel like this is the key thing. Instead of mandating blanket policies (whatever they are) that might not make sense for every team, trust your employees to self-organize in the way that makes the most sense for them and the way they work. I'm in the same boat, and like you, doubt I will want to work any other way again.
- ootsootsoots 5y ago
  We say employees when we mean people, who have a history of self organizing around human need It’s mesmerizing to me how so many think office life is a necessity for data entry work Nevermind open source developers building the software world we rely on via email for decades.
  - dukeyukey 5y ago
    > It’s mesmerizing to me how so many think office life is a necessity for data entry work I think it's more about how cities and communities are set up with commuting in mind. Like, I live about an hour away from my best mate, which in London may as well be Mars. Bur our offices are literally 5 mins walk from each other, so messaging 'pint?' is SO much easier when in-office. This is just an anecdote, and things have gotten better as the city has adjusted (gotten more involved in my local community for example) but I can 100% see why people are reluctant to change.
  - _y5hn 5y ago
    Nevermind open source developers building the software world we rely on via email for decades. While this may work, some companies insist DevOps means involving the entire organization and all processes, rendering the word meaningless. So in face of such inflexibility, open source software developed for open source developers works a bit differently, much more flexible.
- decafninja 5y ago
  The problem is that in many cases, the pro-office people, despite saying otherwise, probably do need everyone - or at least most, to be in the office with them for them to personally gain the benefits of the social office environment. The benefits of you WFO depends on your coworkers. If you are a pro-WFO person on a team that offers flexibility to WFH or WFO, but nearly everyone but you is WFH, then what do you do? In contrast if you are a pro-WFH person but the rest of your team is in the office, you probably don’t care as much because the benefits you gain from WFH aren’t dependent on your coworkers.
exodust 5y ago
> and my gratefulness translates into feelings of loyalty towards my employer. Yes and in turn translates to better quality work. In my case, I'm consciously adding extra web dev cherries on top every chance I can. I haven't set foot in the office since the beginning of 2020, mostly due to lockdown. My boss is okay with it because he's happy with my work. I will never go back, I'd quit first. Things I don't miss: * The shared microwave always covered with a layer of grime on the inside. * The office coffee machine, you drank it because it contains caffeine. * Noise pollution from loud phone calls about things you have nothing to do with. * Air con * Air con set to a temperature you would change if you could. * Staff toilets in general. Men's urinals without divider partitions. * The small-talk encounters replayed every day with slightly different arrangement of words. They can be enjoyable too, but this is a cynical list. * Driving and public transport, they both suck. * Alarm clocks. For the first time in my life I wake up at the right time without an alarm. * Not being able to make really nice breakfasts that take more time to prepare. (Porridge using steel-cut oats requires a 25 minute simmer, for example).
- BasicObject 5y ago
  You are me. We had cubicle walls that were so short they didn't make any difference with noise because half the employees were on their feet while having conversations away. Constant talking. It was endless. Non stop complaining about significant others. Thankfully I had an hour lunch to get away for awhile. We overheard every call because it was cubicle after cubicle in one big room. But hey! Let's complain about the customer that we just overheard you talking to for 30 minutes. Let's relive it after every call. Man. Hey yeah, let's have our personal cell phone alert tone be a Linkin Park song at the loudest possible volume and always leave on their desk next to you. What a hell hole. Micromanagement? You got it! You haven't experienced pedantry until you've met my supervisor. If you misspeak a word he pretends to not understand what you mean until you've re-spoken it in a way he understands. Now that we converse over chat/email almost entirely that ridiculous behavior has subsided. They rarely cleaned the bathrooms thoroughly. One urinal. One stall. Just gross. Microwave encrusted with who knows what. Janitors don't clean microwaves I guess? I'm not one of those people that has very specific temperature needs. But of course we had one of those people that was very underweight in the office that needed it to be much warmer than normal. Why can't those people just wear more layers of clothing and not make the rest us suffer in sweat? Parking? Okay that was close. If you can find a spot. I will never go back to the office. I will also quit my job first.
vinbreau 5y ago
I started a new job this year. The employer and our manager have made it clear, IF you feel safe coming into an office once the company declares it safe you can. If you are never comfortable ever again with coming in to the office, you won't have to. They have dedicated themselves to what works best for each employee, zero pressure. Nobody on my team is going in it's been decided. I am way more productive at home. I have ADHD and the distraction of an office environment is too much and makes it hard for me to concentrate. My productivity has never been higher. I don't dread going to work, I get paid enough that I do not need to find a better place. And I have been a remote worker since 2011 and never, ever want to go back to work in an office.
- borski 5y ago
  Heh. I’m not disagreeing with your experience (as it’s yours, obviously) but I’m amused because I also have ADHD and an way less productive with WFH because home has so much more distraction; in an office where others are working it was much easier for me to focus than at home where Netflix or hacker news is only a tab away, and there’s no risk of anyone walking by. Plus, pairing was sort of focusing by default as well, and that’s harder (though not impossible) to do now.
Steltek 5y ago
Just as a contrast, I think I've had the exact opposite WFH/lockdown experience as you. My quality of life has tangibly and significantly degraded across every positive point you listed. Even if my employer began offering office access, I don't think it will ever be the same as what I had before. I used to bike to work, a productive 2 hours of exercise that kept me very healthy, mentally and physically. I got to see other people, even if they weren't strictly friends. Hell, I went outside on a regular basis! Now I'm gaining weight (although not enough for a booster), lonely, and overworked as the involuntarily designated quasi-stay-at-home parent.
- znpy 5y ago
  > I used to bike to work, a productive 2 hours of exercise that kept me very healthy Just go and bike for two hours around the block and don't bother people fine with wfh. It's literally something nobody is preventing you from doing (besides yourself).
  - wirrbel 5y ago
    Stop bullshitting. As a parent the dynamics are totally different especially with Covid measures still in place. My child has not been to pre school for 4 weeks due to sickness and daycare group being closed because of Covid incident. And that must be like the 4th month within this year. It’s hard to maintain any routine in this ever changing emergency.
    - znpy 5y ago
      No you stop bullshitting. The problem you lament are due to covid, not due to wfh. And covid it's not an incident, its a f-ing global pandemic.
      - wirrbel 5y ago
        so what do you suggest, that the person you were replying to just stop the pandemic?
  - 5y ago
loudtieblahblah 5y ago
I'm a parent. I've had 2 employers in the last 7 years, switching in June of this year. When covid struck initially, I kept my kid home with me. My job, aside from a daily standup and a weekly meeting, could be done while juggling my child. I worked really odd hours, bc I could. Early AM, later at night. But I got to protect my kid and my family from a disease I didn't know much about, for 15 months. My new job disallows me to juggle him but it's still WFH. He started school anyways. I exercise more. I meditate more. Go outside more - get little chores done, cut the grass on my lunch break rather than cutting in on family time. The lack of a 45-115 min commute each way has been a lifesaver. Going to the doctor is faster and less time consuming bc my docs are near my home and not near my work. I can jog in the morning and still be to work "on time" rather than having to get up earlier and trade exercise for sleep. And what's more.. When I do break, I get to see my wife. Or talk to my parents on the phone. At lunch I can catch up on a TV show, a podcast, a YouTube vid, that I'm interested in but my family might not be. It affords me more ability to access my personal computer for things I might not do on a company machine. I can do training videos and obligatory but time pointless and wasting meetings that never ask for my participation while in my "poor man's sauna" (hot bath + space heater in the room) or on a exercise bike or while walking around the block. I miss being around people I like at work. But alas.. I don't like anyone at my new job even a little
hiepph 5y ago
Yes the most notable effect is I can eliminate the commuting time and spend that to exercise outside (for 2 hours!). Now I can come back to improve my running distance, discover the joy of bicycling and so much more! But I miss the interaction with real people. Sure you have application to help with chatting and meeting but somehow I long for the real connection. And I'm speaking from the perspective of an introvert. There's something that remote working can replace the serendipity. I felt I had much more creative ideas when working onsite.

gaws 5y ago

> Very grateful that my employer has committed to remaining flexible with remote work. Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the individual. imagine working for an employer that treats you like a human being.

novaRom 5y ago

Even now in October you wake up in the darkness, and it's dark again at 4 pm here. When WFH you can decide flexibly what time is the best for you for an hour of outside activity. You can go out at noon to enjoy few minutes of gentle sunshine. Then, being recharged it feels awesome and the total productivity is great.

sbarre 5y ago

> Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the individual. I feel like this is the key thing. Instead of mandating blanket policies (whatever they are) that might not make sense for every team, trust your employees to self-organize in the way that makes the most sense for them and the way they work. I'm in the same boat, and like you, doubt I will want to work any other way again.

ootsootsoots 5y ago
We say employees when we mean people, who have a history of self organizing around human need It’s mesmerizing to me how so many think office life is a necessity for data entry work Nevermind open source developers building the software world we rely on via email for decades.
- dukeyukey 5y ago
  > It’s mesmerizing to me how so many think office life is a necessity for data entry work I think it's more about how cities and communities are set up with commuting in mind. Like, I live about an hour away from my best mate, which in London may as well be Mars. Bur our offices are literally 5 mins walk from each other, so messaging 'pint?' is SO much easier when in-office. This is just an anecdote, and things have gotten better as the city has adjusted (gotten more involved in my local community for example) but I can 100% see why people are reluctant to change.
- _y5hn 5y ago
  Nevermind open source developers building the software world we rely on via email for decades. While this may work, some companies insist DevOps means involving the entire organization and all processes, rendering the word meaningless. So in face of such inflexibility, open source software developed for open source developers works a bit differently, much more flexible.
decafninja 5y ago
The problem is that in many cases, the pro-office people, despite saying otherwise, probably do need everyone - or at least most, to be in the office with them for them to personally gain the benefits of the social office environment. The benefits of you WFO depends on your coworkers. If you are a pro-WFO person on a team that offers flexibility to WFH or WFO, but nearly everyone but you is WFH, then what do you do? In contrast if you are a pro-WFH person but the rest of your team is in the office, you probably don’t care as much because the benefits you gain from WFH aren’t dependent on your coworkers.

exodust 5y ago

> and my gratefulness translates into feelings of loyalty towards my employer. Yes and in turn translates to better quality work. In my case, I'm consciously adding extra web dev cherries on top every chance I can. I haven't set foot in the office since the beginning of 2020, mostly due to lockdown. My boss is okay with it because he's happy with my work. I will never go back, I'd quit first. Things I don't miss: * The shared microwave always covered with a layer of grime on the inside. * The office coffee machine, you drank it because it contains caffeine. * Noise pollution from loud phone calls about things you have nothing to do with. * Air con * Air con set to a temperature you would change if you could. * Staff toilets in general. Men's urinals without divider partitions. * The small-talk encounters replayed every day with slightly different arrangement of words. They can be enjoyable too, but this is a cynical list. * Driving and public transport, they both suck. * Alarm clocks. For the first time in my life I wake up at the right time without an alarm. * Not being able to make really nice breakfasts that take more time to prepare. (Porridge using steel-cut oats requires a 25 minute simmer, for example).

BasicObject 5y ago
You are me. We had cubicle walls that were so short they didn't make any difference with noise because half the employees were on their feet while having conversations away. Constant talking. It was endless. Non stop complaining about significant others. Thankfully I had an hour lunch to get away for awhile. We overheard every call because it was cubicle after cubicle in one big room. But hey! Let's complain about the customer that we just overheard you talking to for 30 minutes. Let's relive it after every call. Man. Hey yeah, let's have our personal cell phone alert tone be a Linkin Park song at the loudest possible volume and always leave on their desk next to you. What a hell hole. Micromanagement? You got it! You haven't experienced pedantry until you've met my supervisor. If you misspeak a word he pretends to not understand what you mean until you've re-spoken it in a way he understands. Now that we converse over chat/email almost entirely that ridiculous behavior has subsided. They rarely cleaned the bathrooms thoroughly. One urinal. One stall. Just gross. Microwave encrusted with who knows what. Janitors don't clean microwaves I guess? I'm not one of those people that has very specific temperature needs. But of course we had one of those people that was very underweight in the office that needed it to be much warmer than normal. Why can't those people just wear more layers of clothing and not make the rest us suffer in sweat? Parking? Okay that was close. If you can find a spot. I will never go back to the office. I will also quit my job first.

vinbreau 5y ago

I started a new job this year. The employer and our manager have made it clear, IF you feel safe coming into an office once the company declares it safe you can. If you are never comfortable ever again with coming in to the office, you won't have to. They have dedicated themselves to what works best for each employee, zero pressure. Nobody on my team is going in it's been decided. I am way more productive at home. I have ADHD and the distraction of an office environment is too much and makes it hard for me to concentrate. My productivity has never been higher. I don't dread going to work, I get paid enough that I do not need to find a better place. And I have been a remote worker since 2011 and never, ever want to go back to work in an office.

borski 5y ago
Heh. I’m not disagreeing with your experience (as it’s yours, obviously) but I’m amused because I also have ADHD and an way less productive with WFH because home has so much more distraction; in an office where others are working it was much easier for me to focus than at home where Netflix or hacker news is only a tab away, and there’s no risk of anyone walking by. Plus, pairing was sort of focusing by default as well, and that’s harder (though not impossible) to do now.

Steltek 5y ago

Just as a contrast, I think I've had the exact opposite WFH/lockdown experience as you. My quality of life has tangibly and significantly degraded across every positive point you listed. Even if my employer began offering office access, I don't think it will ever be the same as what I had before. I used to bike to work, a productive 2 hours of exercise that kept me very healthy, mentally and physically. I got to see other people, even if they weren't strictly friends. Hell, I went outside on a regular basis! Now I'm gaining weight (although not enough for a booster), lonely, and overworked as the involuntarily designated quasi-stay-at-home parent.

znpy 5y ago
> I used to bike to work, a productive 2 hours of exercise that kept me very healthy Just go and bike for two hours around the block and don't bother people fine with wfh. It's literally something nobody is preventing you from doing (besides yourself).
- wirrbel 5y ago
  Stop bullshitting. As a parent the dynamics are totally different especially with Covid measures still in place. My child has not been to pre school for 4 weeks due to sickness and daycare group being closed because of Covid incident. And that must be like the 4th month within this year. It’s hard to maintain any routine in this ever changing emergency.
  - znpy 5y ago
    No you stop bullshitting. The problem you lament are due to covid, not due to wfh. And covid it's not an incident, its a f-ing global pandemic.
    - wirrbel 5y ago
      so what do you suggest, that the person you were replying to just stop the pandemic?
- 5y ago

loudtieblahblah 5y ago

I'm a parent. I've had 2 employers in the last 7 years, switching in June of this year. When covid struck initially, I kept my kid home with me. My job, aside from a daily standup and a weekly meeting, could be done while juggling my child. I worked really odd hours, bc I could. Early AM, later at night. But I got to protect my kid and my family from a disease I didn't know much about, for 15 months. My new job disallows me to juggle him but it's still WFH. He started school anyways. I exercise more. I meditate more. Go outside more - get little chores done, cut the grass on my lunch break rather than cutting in on family time. The lack of a 45-115 min commute each way has been a lifesaver. Going to the doctor is faster and less time consuming bc my docs are near my home and not near my work. I can jog in the morning and still be to work "on time" rather than having to get up earlier and trade exercise for sleep. And what's more.. When I do break, I get to see my wife. Or talk to my parents on the phone. At lunch I can catch up on a TV show, a podcast, a YouTube vid, that I'm interested in but my family might not be. It affords me more ability to access my personal computer for things I might not do on a company machine. I can do training videos and obligatory but time pointless and wasting meetings that never ask for my participation while in my "poor man's sauna" (hot bath + space heater in the room) or on a exercise bike or while walking around the block. I miss being around people I like at work. But alas.. I don't like anyone at my new job even a little

hiepph 5y ago

Yes the most notable effect is I can eliminate the commuting time and spend that to exercise outside (for 2 hours!). Now I can come back to improve my running distance, discover the joy of bicycling and so much more! But I miss the interaction with real people. Sure you have application to help with chatting and meeting but somehow I long for the real connection. And I'm speaking from the perspective of an introvert. There's something that remote working can replace the serendipity. I felt I had much more creative ideas when working onsite.