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> the market has repeatedly shown there isn't much demand for persistent virtual worlds I don't know if you have a more narrow view of this idea or specificall

by bmhin 5y ago

> the market has repeatedly shown there isn't much demand for persistent virtual worlds I don't know if you have a more narrow view of this idea or specifically mean VR/AR, but that just sounds like what massively multiplayer online (MMO) games such as Ultima Online, Everquest, and World of Warcraft are. I think Roblox is even a broader use case, though I am fairly unfamiliar with that. MMOs have been very viable from both a business and user stand point and have been a fairly big thing for going on a quarter century or so at this point. Whether these branch into more of the Second Life non-game social space or into being largely AR/VR driven is pretty up in the air, but it's not some sci-fi concept really.

bduerst 5y ago
MMORPGs are not really persistent worlds though. They're an environment crafted to scratch a dopamine itch by providing instant gratification for work, with a social layer attached on top. I write this as someone who used to play MUDs back before MMORPGs even became a thing. Unless Facebook is planning on releasing their own WoW branded as the metaverse, I don't see how they're the same.
- Darmody 5y ago
  They will create some sort of gamification. That's something engaging if it's well done and then, on top of it, their monetization.
  - bduerst 5y ago
    Facebook does this already, and they're not an MMORPG.
debaserab2 5y ago
> MMOs have been very viable from both a business Really? Everything that's not named World of Warcraft seems to die out, usually in less than a year. It's a genre that's been a notorious recipe for failure for most companies not named Blizzard.
- slightwinder 5y ago
  World of Warcraft is RPG. Not all MMO are MMORPGs. And there are now many MMORPGs which are similar size or even bigger than WoW is now, for years already. Though, it's true that outside asia no RPG seems to be as big as WoW was at it's peak. But MMO in general today are massive, far bigger than WoW ever was. Though, there is also far more diversity regarding world-sizes. From smaller worlds for some dozen to hundred users, to bigger world with thousands and ten thousands, to the big massive virtual continents that WoWs era defined, we have them all now.
  - debaserab2 5y ago
    Just curious - what's a popular non-RPG MMO?
    - slightwinder 5y ago
      Minecraft, Roblox, Second Life (probably, not sure whether this counts as game). Pretty much every Multiplayer Sandbox-World nowadays is able to scale up to MMO. At usually out of the box they are not RPG, even though they can be modded to be RPG. Similar things happening at GTA5 or RDR2, where the basegame is not RPG on a technical, but RPG by world-setting and gaming-style. Then we have the endless amounts of wargames[1], shoots[2] and old browser-games[3]. Or the newer genre of battle royale, where we have hundreds of players per session in some game. Though, there is not much richful interaction between the players outside the game, it's all just simple chat or even none at all. Though, I heard Fortnite has gained some persistent world-aspects outside the game-sessions? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_real-time_strategy_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_first-person_shooter_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_turn-based_strategy_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_...
      - bduerst 5y ago
        Other than Second Life, those aren't really persistent virtual worlds. Video game worlds, sure, but do you really see Facebook creating video games for it's blue site and instagram audience?
tsimionescu 5y ago
MMOs live or die based on constant new content and even new mechanics, not persistent worlds. There are some niche products with stable worlds, but those are a minority of a minority.
thEiAoLoGy 5y ago
Hey I’m a MMO dev vet, they’re not viable as the unique aspects were adopted widely by the industry. You’re going to see more games like Genshin Impact and the phantasy star online update. Open world multiplayer games without the massively part. Roblox largely is the modern source mod scene but monetized.

by bmhin 5y ago

bduerst 5y ago

MMORPGs are not really persistent worlds though. They're an environment crafted to scratch a dopamine itch by providing instant gratification for work, with a social layer attached on top. I write this as someone who used to play MUDs back before MMORPGs even became a thing. Unless Facebook is planning on releasing their own WoW branded as the metaverse, I don't see how they're the same.

Darmody 5y ago
They will create some sort of gamification. That's something engaging if it's well done and then, on top of it, their monetization.
- bduerst 5y ago
  Facebook does this already, and they're not an MMORPG.

debaserab2 5y ago

> MMOs have been very viable from both a business Really? Everything that's not named World of Warcraft seems to die out, usually in less than a year. It's a genre that's been a notorious recipe for failure for most companies not named Blizzard.

slightwinder 5y ago
World of Warcraft is RPG. Not all MMO are MMORPGs. And there are now many MMORPGs which are similar size or even bigger than WoW is now, for years already. Though, it's true that outside asia no RPG seems to be as big as WoW was at it's peak. But MMO in general today are massive, far bigger than WoW ever was. Though, there is also far more diversity regarding world-sizes. From smaller worlds for some dozen to hundred users, to bigger world with thousands and ten thousands, to the big massive virtual continents that WoWs era defined, we have them all now.
- debaserab2 5y ago
  Just curious - what's a popular non-RPG MMO?
  - slightwinder 5y ago
    Minecraft, Roblox, Second Life (probably, not sure whether this counts as game). Pretty much every Multiplayer Sandbox-World nowadays is able to scale up to MMO. At usually out of the box they are not RPG, even though they can be modded to be RPG. Similar things happening at GTA5 or RDR2, where the basegame is not RPG on a technical, but RPG by world-setting and gaming-style. Then we have the endless amounts of wargames[1], shoots[2] and old browser-games[3]. Or the newer genre of battle royale, where we have hundreds of players per session in some game. Though, there is not much richful interaction between the players outside the game, it's all just simple chat or even none at all. Though, I heard Fortnite has gained some persistent world-aspects outside the game-sessions? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_real-time_strategy_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_first-person_shooter_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_turn-based_strategy_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_...
    - bduerst 5y ago
      Other than Second Life, those aren't really persistent virtual worlds. Video game worlds, sure, but do you really see Facebook creating video games for it's blue site and instagram audience?

tsimionescu 5y ago

MMOs live or die based on constant new content and even new mechanics, not persistent worlds. There are some niche products with stable worlds, but those are a minority of a minority.

thEiAoLoGy 5y ago

Hey I’m a MMO dev vet, they’re not viable as the unique aspects were adopted widely by the industry. You’re going to see more games like Genshin Impact and the phantasy star online update. Open world multiplayer games without the massively part. Roblox largely is the modern source mod scene but monetized.