6 ms·
A couple of comments (not a medical expert): It's likely that the placebo/nocebo effect is confounded by regression to the mean - a typical example are disease
by Pyramus 5y ago
A couple of comments (not a medical expert):
It's likely that the placebo/nocebo effect is confounded by regression to the mean - a typical example are diseases with some sort of cyclical pattern, e.g. some forms of depression.
But there is strong evidence that there is an effect beyond that: E.g. cancer patients die significantly sooner when they get a negative prognosis [1]. Acupuncture is so effective for treating certain forms of chronic (!) pain that in some cases it's covered by German health insurance since 2007 [2]. If you have been treated in a hospital for pain related issues, e.g. after a surgery, it's not unlikely you have received placebo instead of pain killers (depends a lot on jurisdiction).
Regarding [3] specifically, the obvious elephant in the room is that 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'. Also see the refutations pointed out by user PaulDavisThe1st [4]. What I take away from that study is that yes, in some contexts, regression to the mean may account for a major portion of the placebo effect.
[1] https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(73)91754-6 https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(73)91754-6
[2] https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/gesundheit-pflege/aerzte-und-kliniken/akupunktur-wann-zahlt-die-kasse-12462 https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/gesundheit-pflege/...
[3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12535498/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12535498/
[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29028133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29028133
- podiki 5y agoGood points, and I didn't mean to say that there isn't some placebo/nocebo effect. There's lots of evidence for the connection between mind and body, so it certainly seems plausible this happens (also not a medical expert). I've always found the placebo effect fascinating, but does seem, at least in popular coverage?, to be puffed up more when there's a lot we don't know. And of course it can be very hard to untangle when some people will just get or feel better for who knows what reason. Medical and human research can be very messy, much as the physicist in me just wants to see the hard stats showing a strong (causal) relationship.