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What may be interesting to discuss is if one can regain the integrity that was perceived to be lost in the first place? I have done things I am not proud of. So

What may be interesting to discuss is if one can regain the integrity that was perceived to be lost in the first place? I have done things I am not proud of. Sometimes it was due to ignorance, greed, selfishness or indifference. For those that condemn Facebook employees as being unethical, is there a path forward? Regarding Facebook, I would like all employees to quit. I will also hire former Facebook employees. I know we are capable of remorse and can change for the better.

blitzar 5y ago
Even employee #1? Intern can be redeemed, but can a lifer? Can the person that invented the like button?
- ljm 5y ago
  If you were to replace 'FB employee' with 'criminal', the substance of this post and the parent wouldn't really change. So, as with GP: you're welcome to think FB employees are beyond redemption, and the parent is welcome to see them as ex-convicts, but that's not a good quality discussion for HN. It's just doubling down on facile. Now, if your own place of work took a large turn towards the unethical, would you live up to these expectations or call yourself an exception to the rule because you have reasons? I'm not sure I would live up to them, I think it would be difficult for many people to do that. I might hope to try and improve the situation from the inside before bailing out, provided I had enough internal clout. I might do a lot of things to make me feel like I did my best. In some cases it might not even be clear that what I'm facilitating with my employment is actually wrong.
  - blitzar 5y ago
    > you're welcome to think FB employees are beyond redemption You are welcome to think that is what I think but it is just doubling down on faclie. The societal context and literature on redemption or salvation is typically religious. We can also wade into the crime vs morality vs things that should be crimes against humanity but are not because there are shareholders. Christians even have a handy loophole as usual. There is Heaven for the good, there is Hell for the bad. Then there is Purgatory, for souls with unforgiven sins, where sins are punished and where a persons soul undergoes purification before it can go to Heaven. We also have the added benefit of remuneration. People are paid for their service, and that number is not as arbitary as it may seem. There is a supply/demand factor, skills, location, danger. > Now, if your own place of work took a large turn towards the unethical large turn that I was enacting. I would refuse to 100%. Have done, will do. Someone somewhere in a different department, nothing to do with me, but just happens to be representing the same organisation? We are into the grey here. Is it a rouge actor or the overriding philosophy of my organisation? > I might do a lot of things to make me feel like I did my best But we all know this is just the paycheque and the internal moral compass having a debate about what our price is. Everyone has a price.
    - ljm 5y ago
      So is it the paycheque and internal moral compass or is it the religious aspect, or is it is just christianity and a good/evil dichotomy and christians having a loop hole? Is it money? Or is it a rogue actor, or an overriding philisophy? In all of that, you would refuse 100% to do something. I honestly can't tell if you're agreeing with me when you say everyone has a price, or you're trying to dispute it.
      - blitzar 5y ago
        There are two matters posed originally redeption and your actions. Redemtion is tied up in all of the When it comes to ones own actions everyone has a price. Unless you are at the very top of facebook there is nobody paying that price. When it comes to redeption, you can go to heaven, hell or purgatory and maybe even try and buy your way out of it. Yes, if you paid me a billion I would happily incite genocide half way around the world, it would make me beyond redemption but I would have a billion dollars, so maybe I can buy my way out of it. But that isnt happening, what is on the table is standard salaries, which are the same as you can get elsewhere in the same profession, potentially even lower.
  - tedivm 5y ago
    > Now, if your own place of work took a large turn towards the unethical, would you live up to these expectations or call yourself an exception to the rule because you have reasons? I've quit better jobs for less, to be honest.

blitzar 5y ago

Even employee #1? Intern can be redeemed, but can a lifer? Can the person that invented the like button?

ljm 5y ago
If you were to replace 'FB employee' with 'criminal', the substance of this post and the parent wouldn't really change. So, as with GP: you're welcome to think FB employees are beyond redemption, and the parent is welcome to see them as ex-convicts, but that's not a good quality discussion for HN. It's just doubling down on facile. Now, if your own place of work took a large turn towards the unethical, would you live up to these expectations or call yourself an exception to the rule because you have reasons? I'm not sure I would live up to them, I think it would be difficult for many people to do that. I might hope to try and improve the situation from the inside before bailing out, provided I had enough internal clout. I might do a lot of things to make me feel like I did my best. In some cases it might not even be clear that what I'm facilitating with my employment is actually wrong.
- blitzar 5y ago
  > you're welcome to think FB employees are beyond redemption You are welcome to think that is what I think but it is just doubling down on faclie. The societal context and literature on redemption or salvation is typically religious. We can also wade into the crime vs morality vs things that should be crimes against humanity but are not because there are shareholders. Christians even have a handy loophole as usual. There is Heaven for the good, there is Hell for the bad. Then there is Purgatory, for souls with unforgiven sins, where sins are punished and where a persons soul undergoes purification before it can go to Heaven. We also have the added benefit of remuneration. People are paid for their service, and that number is not as arbitary as it may seem. There is a supply/demand factor, skills, location, danger. > Now, if your own place of work took a large turn towards the unethical large turn that I was enacting. I would refuse to 100%. Have done, will do. Someone somewhere in a different department, nothing to do with me, but just happens to be representing the same organisation? We are into the grey here. Is it a rouge actor or the overriding philosophy of my organisation? > I might do a lot of things to make me feel like I did my best But we all know this is just the paycheque and the internal moral compass having a debate about what our price is. Everyone has a price.
  - ljm 5y ago
    So is it the paycheque and internal moral compass or is it the religious aspect, or is it is just christianity and a good/evil dichotomy and christians having a loop hole? Is it money? Or is it a rogue actor, or an overriding philisophy? In all of that, you would refuse 100% to do something. I honestly can't tell if you're agreeing with me when you say everyone has a price, or you're trying to dispute it.
    - blitzar 5y ago
      There are two matters posed originally redeption and your actions. Redemtion is tied up in all of the When it comes to ones own actions everyone has a price. Unless you are at the very top of facebook there is nobody paying that price. When it comes to redeption, you can go to heaven, hell or purgatory and maybe even try and buy your way out of it. Yes, if you paid me a billion I would happily incite genocide half way around the world, it would make me beyond redemption but I would have a billion dollars, so maybe I can buy my way out of it. But that isnt happening, what is on the table is standard salaries, which are the same as you can get elsewhere in the same profession, potentially even lower.
- tedivm 5y ago
  > Now, if your own place of work took a large turn towards the unethical, would you live up to these expectations or call yourself an exception to the rule because you have reasons? I've quit better jobs for less, to be honest.