11 ms·

Just a reminder that medical consent is your right. And you have the right to say no to any medical procedure

1970-01-01 5y ago
This is false. The patient’s consent is given voluntarily; After they have been fully informed of the risks and consequences; and they possess the mental capacity required to understand and make informed decisions. Special cases that do not require consent: A minor; In labor; Mentally ill or disabled; Under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or prescription medication; In a partially conscious state; and/or Experiencing great stress or pain at the time of consent.
- mStreamTeam 5y ago
  Medical consent is the law in the US https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/1028.116 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/1028.116
  - 1970-01-01 5y ago
    16 CFR § 1028.116 is specific to research subjects, and would not apply here.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
SjorsVG 5y ago
Sure, but you are forbidden from entering lots of places without proof of vaccination or a recent certified test (not cheap).
lghh 5y ago
And you also have a right to distance yourself from someone based on their choices.
- throwawayfear 5y ago
  Anyone wanting to do this doesn't need to know someone else's choices except by asking in private. Feel free to distance yourself from anyone not meeting your conditions. Whereas in general public, wear a mask and social distance. Imposing these "rights" onto the general public is Nanny State hall monitoring on steroids, enacted and enforced by people who...we no longer have any reason to trust. Why can't we trust them? Because their entire schpiel over the last year about getting to herd immunity and endemic covid has gone out the window as of late. They are dragging their feet on acknowledging reality. Here's sources explaining why: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 "Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime" https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253987048.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article25398704... "More than 80% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a new study of over 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-... "Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot" The picture that emerges is clear. These "temporary" mandates no longer have a basis in reality.
ceejayoz 5y ago
Sure. And if you say no to the DTaP, HepB, MMR, polio, etc. vaccines, you may be finding a private school to go to in many states. We've had "vaccine or fuck off" rules in a wide variety of scenarios for decades.
- throwawayfear 5y ago
  Don't lie or exaggerate. We do not have "vaccine or fuck off." This has never been done. What do I mean by this? I mean this: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/24/australia-covid-update-as-most-victoria-restrictions-lift-next-month-vaccinated-economy-to-stay-for-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/24/austr... "Unvaccinated Victorians to be banned from venues including bookshops, pubs and football matches until at least 2023, while similar restrictions in NSW lift in December" Pair that with the totalitarian measures enacted in Australia over the last 1.5 years in general (see my comment history). It's time to stop exaggerating the role that past vaccine requirements had when working in hospitals or in specific settings like that. This is much more than that, entailing a complete subversion of individual rights. Someone supporting these types of measures has bought into the mass media kool-aid pitting "vaxxed vs unvaxxed" which is now dehumanizing a subset of the population so much so that useful fools are not seeing the writing on the wall when a rich politician is saying on absolutely zero basis who can and cannot be included in normal society. Why do I say it's zero basis? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 "Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime" https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253987048.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article25398704... "More than 80% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a new study of over 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-... "Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot" When all the facts are considered, it's blatantly clear that these mandates serve no real purpose anymore ON THE TERMS THESE VERY PEOPLE WERE ESTABLISHING. Over the last year, we heard about 60 to 70 percent being the marker for herd immunity and endemic covid. We've reached those numbers through antibodies (regardless of source) already. For months now. Where's the admission from Fauci and Daniel Andrews that their newfound limelight and powers are no longer necessary?
b0sk 5y ago
Except it's not. You can drink 15 gallons of Coke every day and that's your right. But you can't be a vector of transmissible diseases.
- nradov 5y ago
  I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but vaccinated people are also vectors for transmissible diseases. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y
  - b0sk 5y ago
    Lot less probability though. Like saying people wearing seatbelts can also die.
    - native_samples 5y ago
      That's not correct. If it were true then there would not be high case numbers in countries with very high vaccination rates, but there are. UK data shows that vaccinated people are more likely to get COVID than unvaccinated people at this point. You cannot argue that vaccination makes you less likely to catch it with figures like that - it's just a made up talking point to try and justify deeply unwise and unethical mandates.
    - Dwelve 5y ago
      "But you can't be a vector of transmissible diseases" what exactly did you not understand about your own statement? Are you allowed to be a vector or not?
- throwawayfear 5y ago
  Do you want to live in temperature-controlled rooms, monitored by the government to ensure that no transmissible diseases are around? You may have a knee-jerk reaction to my question, thinking it has no basis in reality. Meanwhile, in Australia: They're going to force people who quarantine at home (rather than a government-mandated quarantine "hotel" with guards) to install and use an app. Facial recognition, GPS tracking in your own home. And it will randomly ping you, and if you don't respond within 15 minutes it'll send the police to your house to conduct an in-person quarantine check. Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a... It's not far off from your premise that a totalitarian regime would make this control the norm in the name of "don't be a vector of transmissible diseases." The government could deliver meals to you! And let you out for exercise once a day as long as you stay within a few miles of your box! Does this still sound delusional? Those are effectively the terms that have already been imposed on people in Australia over the last year. They can arbitrarily lock you in your apartment building for up to weeks, no one allowed to leave. Sources: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53316097 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53316097 https://fortune.com/2020/11/19/south-australia-adelaide-lockdown-exercise-dog-walking/ https://fortune.com/2020/11/19/south-australia-adelaide-lock... "For six days, only one person from a household will be allowed to leave home each day, and only for essential reasons, authorities said. Schools, universities, cafes and restaurants are closed, weddings and funerals are banned and mask-wearing is mandatory. “We want to go hard, go early, but get out of it as quickly as we can,” State Premier Steven Marshall said of the measures." This is from last year by the way. They went hard but didn't get out of it at all judging by what's still the policy in Australia. And over the last year they still had their requirement about not leaving far from your box (oops I mean house) when exercising. Nobody could leave certain cities, even. These examples are just scratching the surface of why it's naive to formulate your worldview based on a moral righteousness about "don't be a vector for disease." It's dangerous rhetoric even if it feels good in online posting to be "better" than others this way. Don't buy into the dishonest media narrative about "vaxxed vs unvaxxed."

1970-01-01 5y ago

This is false. The patient’s consent is given voluntarily; After they have been fully informed of the risks and consequences; and they possess the mental capacity required to understand and make informed decisions. Special cases that do not require consent: A minor; In labor; Mentally ill or disabled; Under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or prescription medication; In a partially conscious state; and/or Experiencing great stress or pain at the time of consent.

mStreamTeam 5y ago
Medical consent is the law in the US https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/1028.116 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/1028.116
- 1970-01-01 5y ago
  16 CFR § 1028.116 is specific to research subjects, and would not apply here.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

SjorsVG 5y ago

Sure, but you are forbidden from entering lots of places without proof of vaccination or a recent certified test (not cheap).

lghh 5y ago

And you also have a right to distance yourself from someone based on their choices.

throwawayfear 5y ago
Anyone wanting to do this doesn't need to know someone else's choices except by asking in private. Feel free to distance yourself from anyone not meeting your conditions. Whereas in general public, wear a mask and social distance. Imposing these "rights" onto the general public is Nanny State hall monitoring on steroids, enacted and enforced by people who...we no longer have any reason to trust. Why can't we trust them? Because their entire schpiel over the last year about getting to herd immunity and endemic covid has gone out the window as of late. They are dragging their feet on acknowledging reality. Here's sources explaining why: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 "Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime" https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253987048.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article25398704... "More than 80% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a new study of over 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-... "Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot" The picture that emerges is clear. These "temporary" mandates no longer have a basis in reality.

ceejayoz 5y ago

Sure. And if you say no to the DTaP, HepB, MMR, polio, etc. vaccines, you may be finding a private school to go to in many states. We've had "vaccine or fuck off" rules in a wide variety of scenarios for decades.

throwawayfear 5y ago
Don't lie or exaggerate. We do not have "vaccine or fuck off." This has never been done. What do I mean by this? I mean this: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/24/australia-covid-update-as-most-victoria-restrictions-lift-next-month-vaccinated-economy-to-stay-for-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/24/austr... "Unvaccinated Victorians to be banned from venues including bookshops, pubs and football matches until at least 2023, while similar restrictions in NSW lift in December" Pair that with the totalitarian measures enacted in Australia over the last 1.5 years in general (see my comment history). It's time to stop exaggerating the role that past vaccine requirements had when working in hospitals or in specific settings like that. This is much more than that, entailing a complete subversion of individual rights. Someone supporting these types of measures has bought into the mass media kool-aid pitting "vaxxed vs unvaxxed" which is now dehumanizing a subset of the population so much so that useful fools are not seeing the writing on the wall when a rich politician is saying on absolutely zero basis who can and cannot be included in normal society. Why do I say it's zero basis? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9 "Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime" https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article253987048.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article25398704... "More than 80% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a new study of over 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-... "Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot" When all the facts are considered, it's blatantly clear that these mandates serve no real purpose anymore ON THE TERMS THESE VERY PEOPLE WERE ESTABLISHING. Over the last year, we heard about 60 to 70 percent being the marker for herd immunity and endemic covid. We've reached those numbers through antibodies (regardless of source) already. For months now. Where's the admission from Fauci and Daniel Andrews that their newfound limelight and powers are no longer necessary?

b0sk 5y ago

Except it's not. You can drink 15 gallons of Coke every day and that's your right. But you can't be a vector of transmissible diseases.

nradov 5y ago
I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but vaccinated people are also vectors for transmissible diseases. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y
- b0sk 5y ago
  Lot less probability though. Like saying people wearing seatbelts can also die.
  - native_samples 5y ago
    That's not correct. If it were true then there would not be high case numbers in countries with very high vaccination rates, but there are. UK data shows that vaccinated people are more likely to get COVID than unvaccinated people at this point. You cannot argue that vaccination makes you less likely to catch it with figures like that - it's just a made up talking point to try and justify deeply unwise and unethical mandates.
  - Dwelve 5y ago
    "But you can't be a vector of transmissible diseases" what exactly did you not understand about your own statement? Are you allowed to be a vector or not?
throwawayfear 5y ago
Do you want to live in temperature-controlled rooms, monitored by the government to ensure that no transmissible diseases are around? You may have a knee-jerk reaction to my question, thinking it has no basis in reality. Meanwhile, in Australia: They're going to force people who quarantine at home (rather than a government-mandated quarantine "hotel" with guards) to install and use an app. Facial recognition, GPS tracking in your own home. And it will randomly ping you, and if you don't respond within 15 minutes it'll send the police to your house to conduct an in-person quarantine check. Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a... It's not far off from your premise that a totalitarian regime would make this control the norm in the name of "don't be a vector of transmissible diseases." The government could deliver meals to you! And let you out for exercise once a day as long as you stay within a few miles of your box! Does this still sound delusional? Those are effectively the terms that have already been imposed on people in Australia over the last year. They can arbitrarily lock you in your apartment building for up to weeks, no one allowed to leave. Sources: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53316097 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53316097 https://fortune.com/2020/11/19/south-australia-adelaide-lockdown-exercise-dog-walking/ https://fortune.com/2020/11/19/south-australia-adelaide-lock... "For six days, only one person from a household will be allowed to leave home each day, and only for essential reasons, authorities said. Schools, universities, cafes and restaurants are closed, weddings and funerals are banned and mask-wearing is mandatory. “We want to go hard, go early, but get out of it as quickly as we can,” State Premier Steven Marshall said of the measures." This is from last year by the way. They went hard but didn't get out of it at all judging by what's still the policy in Australia. And over the last year they still had their requirement about not leaving far from your box (oops I mean house) when exercising. Nobody could leave certain cities, even. These examples are just scratching the surface of why it's naive to formulate your worldview based on a moral righteousness about "don't be a vector for disease." It's dangerous rhetoric even if it feels good in online posting to be "better" than others this way. Don't buy into the dishonest media narrative about "vaxxed vs unvaxxed."