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Do we really think Javascript is exotic? Hasn't it proved itself over many years now? That doesn't mean it can't have issues like anything else. And because of

Do we really think Javascript is exotic? Hasn't it proved itself over many years now? That doesn't mean it can't have issues like anything else. And because of the massive scale of the language you'll see a lot of shit. It's a language and ecosystem like anything else - it's what you do with it that matters.

_Understated_ 5y ago
I wouldn't say JavaScript is exotic, it's more to do with what is being done with it. Traditionally it was used to enhance HTML pages with some DOM manipulation but it's now being used for a million other things too. So historically, if your JavaScript code broke your page would still render as it was just html but now there are all sorts of build processes and long chains that use JavaScript to create the html in the first place... I'd consider that the exotic bit. Traditional JS running in the browser manipulating DOM elements is very much a foundational aspect of the web and won't deteriorate with age (with the exception of perhaps deprecated functions in the far-off future) but all these js libraries and tools and build processes with massive dependency-chains are what's being referred to.
- lhnz 5y ago
  It's been used as a general purpose programming language for over a decade. It is a 'boring technology' nowadays and hardly exotic. Of course, you could decide to do something exotic with it (edge rendering, data programming, whatever) but that's not a problem with the language but people wanting to stretch themselves...
  - pas 5y ago
    It still sucks by default. https://i.redd.it/h7nt4keyd7oy.jpg https://i.redd.it/h7nt4keyd7oy.jpg Yes, the ecosystem is pretty mature, we have things like ESlint, TypeScript, Babel, TC39, and so on.
- emerongi 5y ago
  JavaScript has matured massively over the past 10 years. I'm not a Node developer myself, but JS + TS is a very palatable combination to me. I'd pick it over many other languages. 10 years ago I would not have touched JS unless I was forced.
  - criddell 5y ago
    Would you pick it for the back end as well as the front end?
  - brigandish 5y ago
    > I'd pick it over many other languages. I'd be interested to know which ones, because I can't think of one advantage that Javascript has - aside from the ubiquity of browsers. If we're comparing any other aspect of it though, I just don't know what advantage it has (seriously).
    - sacado2 5y ago
      Typescript has a pretty cool type system. A mixture of dynamic and static typing. You can be as dynamic as with js (or python), or stricter than Java (you can state a reference cannot be null for instance), or anything in between (and have dynamic parts and static parts in the same program).
      - brigandish 5y ago
        I haven't used Typescript but I've generally heard very good things about it. I didn't know you can mix and match, that might give me a bit more of kick to include it in a project, thanks. Whether or not it's an advantage of Javascript… I'm not sure. I mean, if someone wrote a transpiler for Java that overlayed stricter typing, would that really be an advantage of Java? Not sure, but of course, worth considering when choosing a language for a project.
    - tolgerias 5y ago
      Functions are first class. Async i/o by default. Familiar syntax (I'm sure Haskell or Clojure are better languages, but they sure take some time to get used to. You can be fairly productive in js in very little time). There are packages for anything you can think of, no need to reinvent the wheel most of the times. And I even like it's single threaded nature. Being able to keep a process waiting without needing to spin a new thread with all that implies is very convenient. Edit: Original commenter had already mentioned typescript. So what's the deal with TS? I think on top of adding much needed type safety to Javascript, TS is also one of the best type systems you can ask for.

_Understated_ 5y ago

I wouldn't say JavaScript is exotic, it's more to do with what is being done with it. Traditionally it was used to enhance HTML pages with some DOM manipulation but it's now being used for a million other things too. So historically, if your JavaScript code broke your page would still render as it was just html but now there are all sorts of build processes and long chains that use JavaScript to create the html in the first place... I'd consider that the exotic bit. Traditional JS running in the browser manipulating DOM elements is very much a foundational aspect of the web and won't deteriorate with age (with the exception of perhaps deprecated functions in the far-off future) but all these js libraries and tools and build processes with massive dependency-chains are what's being referred to.

lhnz 5y ago
It's been used as a general purpose programming language for over a decade. It is a 'boring technology' nowadays and hardly exotic. Of course, you could decide to do something exotic with it (edge rendering, data programming, whatever) but that's not a problem with the language but people wanting to stretch themselves...
- pas 5y ago
  It still sucks by default. https://i.redd.it/h7nt4keyd7oy.jpg https://i.redd.it/h7nt4keyd7oy.jpg Yes, the ecosystem is pretty mature, we have things like ESlint, TypeScript, Babel, TC39, and so on.
emerongi 5y ago
JavaScript has matured massively over the past 10 years. I'm not a Node developer myself, but JS + TS is a very palatable combination to me. I'd pick it over many other languages. 10 years ago I would not have touched JS unless I was forced.
- criddell 5y ago
  Would you pick it for the back end as well as the front end?
- brigandish 5y ago
  > I'd pick it over many other languages. I'd be interested to know which ones, because I can't think of one advantage that Javascript has - aside from the ubiquity of browsers. If we're comparing any other aspect of it though, I just don't know what advantage it has (seriously).
  - sacado2 5y ago
    Typescript has a pretty cool type system. A mixture of dynamic and static typing. You can be as dynamic as with js (or python), or stricter than Java (you can state a reference cannot be null for instance), or anything in between (and have dynamic parts and static parts in the same program).
    - brigandish 5y ago
      I haven't used Typescript but I've generally heard very good things about it. I didn't know you can mix and match, that might give me a bit more of kick to include it in a project, thanks. Whether or not it's an advantage of Javascript… I'm not sure. I mean, if someone wrote a transpiler for Java that overlayed stricter typing, would that really be an advantage of Java? Not sure, but of course, worth considering when choosing a language for a project.
  - tolgerias 5y ago
    Functions are first class. Async i/o by default. Familiar syntax (I'm sure Haskell or Clojure are better languages, but they sure take some time to get used to. You can be fairly productive in js in very little time). There are packages for anything you can think of, no need to reinvent the wheel most of the times. And I even like it's single threaded nature. Being able to keep a process waiting without needing to spin a new thread with all that implies is very convenient. Edit: Original commenter had already mentioned typescript. So what's the deal with TS? I think on top of adding much needed type safety to Javascript, TS is also one of the best type systems you can ask for.