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I think that's changing as challenging the vaccine efficacy or risk profile has become less controversial in the last month. Been sent about half a dozen videos

I think that's changing as challenging the vaccine efficacy or risk profile has become less controversial in the last month. Been sent about half a dozen videos in last week with high viewership and they haven't been removed. This is probably because all of Northern Europe has essentially banned Moderna due to myocarditis risk, and data from many countries, even the CDC's own, show the vaccinated now getting infected at similar rates as unvaccinated (i.e. antibody drop off or virus mutation). EDIT Responding to person who wants to learn more, I'm going in good faith that you're not the ad hominem type. Given the climate of cancellation and censorship not a lot of people are speaking up, so take what you can get... The recent Joe Rogan episode with Berenson is a review of quite a few papers and government data sets which they parse. Watch it on Spotify. You're going to get intro'd to data from Israel, UK, CDC, others about vaccine efficacy and about adverse events in young people due to inflammation from accumulation of spike protein. CDC's most recent data shows 40% of covid deaths over last week were of the vaccinated, e.g. relevant screen shots from CDC's website via this random guy, https://twitter.com/SteveDeaceShow/status/1451653752889516040 https://twitter.com/SteveDeaceShow/status/145165375288951604... You can certainly google Northern Europe's halt on Moderna (either for youth or for all). Sweden just halted today, e.g. Shttps://www.zerohedge.com/political/sweden-suspends-moderna-shot-indefinitely-after-vaxxed-patients-develop-crippling-heart https://www.zerohedge.com/political/sweden-suspends-moderna-... There's a lot on YT, round table discussions with medical professionals are the most interesting. I've observed the same censorious culture on HN as on social media when it comes to vaccines, so I'm not going to share links so they can stay up for others who are making difficult decisions. You can find them by poking around accounts on Twitter Gab Substack of people who are speaking out against vaccine mandates or related.

inside65 5y ago
Any links I can read more about this?
- op00to 5y ago
  No, because it’s not true. You can however read the CDC report that shows vaccines are still hugely effective in preventing death. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e1.htm?s_cid=mm7043e1_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e1.htm?s_cid=mm...
- yesbut 5y ago
  In regards to covid in particular: > Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/
  - api 5y ago
    Look at rates of hospitalization and death. It appears that the Moderna vaccine at least is very effective at reducing severity but does not prevent infection (or does not do so well enough). This ironically makes it more dangerous to not be vaccinated since vaccinated people are more likely to be asymptomatic carriers. I’ll take it over nothing. It’s damn good for getting a vaccine in a year. There will probably be better ones in 2-3 years.
Retric 5y ago
That’s misinformation. Antibody drop off is supposed to happen, it’s different than reduced vaccine effectiveness. Childhood vaccination for measles for example provides near lifetime protection via the adaptive immune systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell Which cuts days from how quickly the body can respond to infections. When people of similar age and health with and without vaccination die at similar rates then you can say their ineffective. There is a short term boost from antibodies after an infection or vaccination, but they don’t prevent infection they just reduce infections to the point where we don’t notice.
YZF 5y ago
Not sure where you're getting your data but here's some data for you: http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-10-14-Data-Summary.pdf http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/... Over the past month, fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 29% of cases and 19% of hospitalizations (In British Columbia, Canada). We have ~75% of the population vaccinated. So 25% of the people account for 71% of the cases and the case rate amongst vaccinated is significantly lower. What you really want to think about is what that says about the R number difference between those populations because our R is hovering around 1 so the vaccine is making a huge difference.
- yesbut 5y ago
  In regards to covid-19 in particular: > Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/
  - YZF 5y ago
    The study is flawed in many ways. There is no control for any other measures in place. Also looking at the case rate is not the right metric since we don't know the base rate for the comparison, I would want to look at an estimate of R instead. EDIT: "Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. " I follow Israel's Covid situations very closely because I have family there and this statement is misleading. The increase in cases in Israel was related to the delta variant arriving, the overall vaccine coverage being low (yeah, 60% isn't enough for Delta) and all restrictions being lifted. And yes, some waning of the effectiveness of the vaccines as well. With the reintroduction of some restrictions (such as vaccine passports e.g.), higher vaccine coverage, and some 3rd booster shots their cases have dropped significantly (by a factor of 8 over a month or so!).
- rajin444 5y ago
  You're looking at presented cases and hospitalizations - a fraction of a fraction of total covid infections. There's no way this accurately reflects R0 (assuming that's what you're talking about - sorry if I'm wrong!). And determining the impact vaccines have on R0 is nearly impossible - there's too many unknown unknowns that would confound it. For example, if a flu vaccine was administered at the end of a seasonal peak, we'd think the vaccine caused the dropoff because we don't understand seasonality.

inside65 5y ago

Any links I can read more about this?

op00to 5y ago
No, because it’s not true. You can however read the CDC report that shows vaccines are still hugely effective in preventing death. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e1.htm?s_cid=mm7043e1_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e1.htm?s_cid=mm...
yesbut 5y ago
In regards to covid in particular: > Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/
- api 5y ago
  Look at rates of hospitalization and death. It appears that the Moderna vaccine at least is very effective at reducing severity but does not prevent infection (or does not do so well enough). This ironically makes it more dangerous to not be vaccinated since vaccinated people are more likely to be asymptomatic carriers. I’ll take it over nothing. It’s damn good for getting a vaccine in a year. There will probably be better ones in 2-3 years.

Retric 5y ago

That’s misinformation. Antibody drop off is supposed to happen, it’s different than reduced vaccine effectiveness. Childhood vaccination for measles for example provides near lifetime protection via the adaptive immune systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell Which cuts days from how quickly the body can respond to infections. When people of similar age and health with and without vaccination die at similar rates then you can say their ineffective. There is a short term boost from antibodies after an infection or vaccination, but they don’t prevent infection they just reduce infections to the point where we don’t notice.

YZF 5y ago

Not sure where you're getting your data but here's some data for you: http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-10-14-Data-Summary.pdf http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/... Over the past month, fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 29% of cases and 19% of hospitalizations (In British Columbia, Canada). We have ~75% of the population vaccinated. So 25% of the people account for 71% of the cases and the case rate amongst vaccinated is significantly lower. What you really want to think about is what that says about the R number difference between those populations because our R is hovering around 1 so the vaccine is making a huge difference.

yesbut 5y ago
In regards to covid-19 in particular: > Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/
- YZF 5y ago
  The study is flawed in many ways. There is no control for any other measures in place. Also looking at the case rate is not the right metric since we don't know the base rate for the comparison, I would want to look at an estimate of R instead. EDIT: "Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. " I follow Israel's Covid situations very closely because I have family there and this statement is misleading. The increase in cases in Israel was related to the delta variant arriving, the overall vaccine coverage being low (yeah, 60% isn't enough for Delta) and all restrictions being lifted. And yes, some waning of the effectiveness of the vaccines as well. With the reintroduction of some restrictions (such as vaccine passports e.g.), higher vaccine coverage, and some 3rd booster shots their cases have dropped significantly (by a factor of 8 over a month or so!).
rajin444 5y ago
You're looking at presented cases and hospitalizations - a fraction of a fraction of total covid infections. There's no way this accurately reflects R0 (assuming that's what you're talking about - sorry if I'm wrong!). And determining the impact vaccines have on R0 is nearly impossible - there's too many unknown unknowns that would confound it. For example, if a flu vaccine was administered at the end of a seasonal peak, we'd think the vaccine caused the dropoff because we don't understand seasonality.