39 ms·

brave shilling is concerningly effective

fastball 5y ago
Yeah, I'm honestly flabbergasted that people like using a browser that has the performance of Chromium without the Google, a thorough / very performant ad-blocker built-in, and some totally optional next-gen features that many people like.
- tommit 5y ago
  I'm with you. I check out most brave threads on HN and am always surprised by the level of hatred towards it. I've been using it for over a year now. It's a good browser and I like the new ideas they come up with. I don't know whether it's going to catch on, but at least someone is thinking outside the box.
  - Tepix 5y ago
    I'm surprised by the hatred towards pretty much anything these days, even things that are benign.
- AegirLeet 5y ago
  There is no "Chromium without the Google". Chromium/Blink is made by Google. By using a browser built on Chromium/Blink, you are actively supporting Google's browser engine hegemony.
  - xNeil 5y ago
    It seems Brave tones down or deals with most of the creepy stuff in Chromium. https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-Chromium-(features-we-disable-or-remove)#services--features-we-disable-entirely https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-...
  - orangepurple 5y ago
    On a technical level there is a Chromium without Google https://chromium.woolyss.com/ https://chromium.woolyss.com/ I don't care for your political argument.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      If you don't care for political arguments, you probably shouldn't defend a browser made by Brendan Eich.
      - fastball 5y ago
        Brendan Eich has personal political views. How would you say those manifest in Brave?
  - rglullis 5y ago
    The browser is not just the engine and the "browser engine hegemony" is not what really matters. What matters is that Google does not establish a position where it can use its browser to dictate the direction of the whole web in favor of its business. Chromium or not, Brave was never forced to adopt the changes in the extension manifest (which would block some ad-blocking and tracking mechanisms). They also never were forced to implement FLOC, they have their own policy regarding third-party cookies, etc, etc. Sure it would be better if we had diversity and more choices in all different layers, but if you think about it the more companies use Chromium to create browsers that take the web in a different direction from what Google wants, the more Google gets judo-ed out of its dominance.
    - twobitshifter 5y ago
      I think we’ve seen how Google can kneecap it’s open source products with Android, taking more and more portions into closed source. Why won’t they take the same step with chromium if Microsoft edge and Brave become too popular?
      - rglullis 5y ago
        In your example, Chrome is to Android as Chromium is to AOSP. They can not close the Chromium parts, much like they can not close the AOSP parts. Having MS Edge and Brave becoming too popular would be akin to getting LineageOS, /e/OS to mainstream, and it is exactly my point: no matter how much that would be against Google's interests, there is nothing they can do about it.
        twobitshifter 5y ago
        Lineage and e are both at a disadvantage because of a lack of Google play integration which makes banking apps among others not function. People can hack around this but the OS will never end up mainstream as a result. To do the same to chromium, all Google would need to do is make YouTube rely on some proprietary DRM that’s not in Chromium and everyone will end up switching back to chrome. Brave isn’t large enough that Google cares to swat them away, but since they control the underlying project they have ways to neuter chromium.
StevePerkins 5y ago
The only concerning thing here is the growing belief that one's consumer choices are their "identity", and alternate choices are an attack on that identity. Moreover, that alternative choices must be feigned in bad faith, part of a conspiracy, "fake news", etc. What happened to you, Internet? Politics is one thing, but this is starting to bleed over into "liking Apple", or "hating Apple", or any similar camp one finds themselves in with a web browser or programming language or other piece of tech. "People who feel differently from me must be faking it as part of a plot." What the hell?
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I'd love it if this wasn't political. If Brendan Eich wasn't running Brave, I'd probably trust the browser a whole lot more. Same as how if Apple stopped providing service to China and quit leveraging slave-labor, I'd probably trust their products a lot more too.
  - soundnote 5y ago
    How is it political? One of the primary reasons I started using the damn thing is that whatever Eich's politics, they don't seem to affect the product. Vivaldi seems the same, and at least some of their staffers have politics opposite of Eich's. But both teams bring a simple professionalism to work: They all believe in user control and privacy and try to build a good browser on those principles. They're not interested in external political evangelism a la Mozilla, and to me it shows. Even though both of them have the same ethos, the angles they're coming at it are different. But in the end I can expect both teams to deliver a tool that's built to enable me and my wants, regardless of what our opinions on things outside the browser are. After all, they're irrelevant to the browser. Within the browser space, there are politics, but both orgs' politics are of user control and less tracking and spying.

Yeah, I'm honestly flabbergasted that people like using a browser that has the performance of Chromium without the Google, a thorough / very performant ad-blocker built-in, and some totally optional next-gen features that many people like.

tommit 5y ago
I'm with you. I check out most brave threads on HN and am always surprised by the level of hatred towards it. I've been using it for over a year now. It's a good browser and I like the new ideas they come up with. I don't know whether it's going to catch on, but at least someone is thinking outside the box.
- Tepix 5y ago
  I'm surprised by the hatred towards pretty much anything these days, even things that are benign.
AegirLeet 5y ago
There is no "Chromium without the Google". Chromium/Blink is made by Google. By using a browser built on Chromium/Blink, you are actively supporting Google's browser engine hegemony.
- xNeil 5y ago
  It seems Brave tones down or deals with most of the creepy stuff in Chromium. https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-Chromium-(features-we-disable-or-remove)#services--features-we-disable-entirely https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-...
- orangepurple 5y ago
  On a technical level there is a Chromium without Google https://chromium.woolyss.com/ https://chromium.woolyss.com/ I don't care for your political argument.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    If you don't care for political arguments, you probably shouldn't defend a browser made by Brendan Eich.
    - fastball 5y ago
      Brendan Eich has personal political views. How would you say those manifest in Brave?
- rglullis 5y ago
  The browser is not just the engine and the "browser engine hegemony" is not what really matters. What matters is that Google does not establish a position where it can use its browser to dictate the direction of the whole web in favor of its business. Chromium or not, Brave was never forced to adopt the changes in the extension manifest (which would block some ad-blocking and tracking mechanisms). They also never were forced to implement FLOC, they have their own policy regarding third-party cookies, etc, etc. Sure it would be better if we had diversity and more choices in all different layers, but if you think about it the more companies use Chromium to create browsers that take the web in a different direction from what Google wants, the more Google gets judo-ed out of its dominance.
  - twobitshifter 5y ago
    I think we’ve seen how Google can kneecap it’s open source products with Android, taking more and more portions into closed source. Why won’t they take the same step with chromium if Microsoft edge and Brave become too popular?
    - rglullis 5y ago
      In your example, Chrome is to Android as Chromium is to AOSP. They can not close the Chromium parts, much like they can not close the AOSP parts. Having MS Edge and Brave becoming too popular would be akin to getting LineageOS, /e/OS to mainstream, and it is exactly my point: no matter how much that would be against Google's interests, there is nothing they can do about it.
      - twobitshifter 5y ago
        Lineage and e are both at a disadvantage because of a lack of Google play integration which makes banking apps among others not function. People can hack around this but the OS will never end up mainstream as a result. To do the same to chromium, all Google would need to do is make YouTube rely on some proprietary DRM that’s not in Chromium and everyone will end up switching back to chrome. Brave isn’t large enough that Google cares to swat them away, but since they control the underlying project they have ways to neuter chromium.

StevePerkins 5y ago

The only concerning thing here is the growing belief that one's consumer choices are their "identity", and alternate choices are an attack on that identity. Moreover, that alternative choices must be feigned in bad faith, part of a conspiracy, "fake news", etc. What happened to you, Internet? Politics is one thing, but this is starting to bleed over into "liking Apple", or "hating Apple", or any similar camp one finds themselves in with a web browser or programming language or other piece of tech. "People who feel differently from me must be faking it as part of a plot." What the hell?

smoldesu 5y ago
I'd love it if this wasn't political. If Brendan Eich wasn't running Brave, I'd probably trust the browser a whole lot more. Same as how if Apple stopped providing service to China and quit leveraging slave-labor, I'd probably trust their products a lot more too.
- soundnote 5y ago
  How is it political? One of the primary reasons I started using the damn thing is that whatever Eich's politics, they don't seem to affect the product. Vivaldi seems the same, and at least some of their staffers have politics opposite of Eich's. But both teams bring a simple professionalism to work: They all believe in user control and privacy and try to build a good browser on those principles. They're not interested in external political evangelism a la Mozilla, and to me it shows. Even though both of them have the same ethos, the angles they're coming at it are different. But in the end I can expect both teams to deliver a tool that's built to enable me and my wants, regardless of what our opinions on things outside the browser are. After all, they're irrelevant to the browser. Within the browser space, there are politics, but both orgs' politics are of user control and less tracking and spying.