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I agree that there might be a god, but why would such a god that can transcends time and logic.. care about humans? Humans are just a type of animal, an advance

I agree that there might be a god, but why would such a god that can transcends time and logic.. care about humans? Humans are just a type of animal, an advanced organism, in biological terms we are not too different from bacteria, trees and sheep. That there is a first element seems natural, however why should this first element to care about the 100010847238384392938474934th element?

omarfarooq 5y ago
In terms of the Islamic tradition, Allah [lit. The God] is both transcendent and immanent. Quran 50:16 states that Allah is closer to man than his jugular vein and Quran 2:115 states that wherever you turn, there is the Face of Allah. Now to answer why He cares, the Quran states that He specifically created mankind to know Him. And indeed, the recurring injunction in the Quran is to remember Allah, because you already know Him—Quran 7:172 states that we testified to His Lordship in a pre-birth state.
- diskzero 5y ago
  This is a tangent, but I don't have many opportunities to speak to people knowledgeable of Islam. Is there a concept of original sin in Islam? Do we need to seek forgiveness or salvation?
  - omarfarooq 5y ago
    Islam does not have a concept of original sin attached to the descending of mankind to earth. Adam and his wife disobeying the command to eat from the forbidden tree is described as a "slip" in the Quran, not a monstrosity of a rebellion as seen in Christianity. Indeed, the Quran also says that before even creating Adam, Allah announced [to the angels] the purpose of Adam and his offspring is to be put on the earth as a vicegerent (Quran 2:30). I define salvation as: 'being preserved in Heaven', and in Islam this is sought through forgiveness. Quran 39:53 Say, “O servants of Mine who have transgressed against their own selves, do not despair of Allah’s Mercy. Surely, Allah will forgive all sins. Surely, He is the One who is the Most Forgiving, the Ever Merciful."
    - diskzero 5y ago
      Thanks for the information and the pointers to the text in the Quran. Time to do some reading!
  - nxmnxm99 5y ago
    Nope. The Islamic approach is to optimize to our maxima. Essentially our core purpose is to strive to "find/discover/understand" God through manifesting different values (the 99 names of Allah). The various prophets (Jesus) are those among us who came closest so that understanding and manifestation.
- kmmlng 5y ago
  Interestingly this sounds like the new agey saying "We are the universe experiencing itself". > Quran 2:115 states that wherever you turn, there is the Face of Allah. So Allah is everything or at least he is IN everything. The universe is everything. > the Quran states that He specifically created mankind to know Him. Mankind experiences Allah, the universe. Would you agree with this kind of mapping or am I making any unjustified leaps here?
  - omarfarooq 5y ago
    I would not agree with that because it's pantheism. One meaning for His Face being everywhere is that everything is turned towards Him whether they know it or not, since He is the giver of being. It does not mean a literal encapsulation or identification of the Infinite with the finite. Rather, closer to your sentiment from an Islamic theological perspective is to say that what we experience in the universe is an interplay of His attributes since He is the causer.
nxmnxm99 5y ago
I’ve never understood this argument. What else would god “care” about, if not the only truly sentient creature that we know of? Trillions of light years of pointless rock with a few Apes in the middle who can contemplate God. Seems pretty damn special fo me.
- giveexamples 5y ago
  Look at your kitchen sink. On that metal lives a billion bacteria cells. Maybe some of them are even sentient. Do you even care to find out? Not really - its far beneath you. Humans are infinitely inferior to a god. We are no different to a moving rock.
  - omarfarooq 5y ago
    You're assuming God's values though.
  - nxmnxm99 5y ago
    We are the only creature we know of that's capable of reasoning about our own existence and understanding our potential creation. That is a scientific fact of which there is no counterevidence. To deny that in an effort to refute the potential existence of God is to cut off your nose to spite your face.
    - beecafe 5y ago
      This statement can also be taken as one as a limitation of our understanding of the internal lives of other creatures. And there's nothing scientific about it.
      - nxmnxm99 5y ago
        The problem is, if you're going to make that case, the same argument can be applied to a limitation of our understanding of our origin.
  - mpfundstein 5y ago
tdrdt 5y ago
There are a million hobbies in this world. Why did you choose the hobby you chose? Because it pleases you. Why did you pick up that one shell at the beach while there are thousands of them? Because your eye fell on it. I am not sure if I understand your argument. If there is a God who is the first and last element, who created everything, why wouldn't his eye fall in love with one element? And why not with all elements?

omarfarooq 5y ago

In terms of the Islamic tradition, Allah [lit. The God] is both transcendent and immanent. Quran 50:16 states that Allah is closer to man than his jugular vein and Quran 2:115 states that wherever you turn, there is the Face of Allah. Now to answer why He cares, the Quran states that He specifically created mankind to know Him. And indeed, the recurring injunction in the Quran is to remember Allah, because you already know Him—Quran 7:172 states that we testified to His Lordship in a pre-birth state.

diskzero 5y ago
This is a tangent, but I don't have many opportunities to speak to people knowledgeable of Islam. Is there a concept of original sin in Islam? Do we need to seek forgiveness or salvation?
- omarfarooq 5y ago
  Islam does not have a concept of original sin attached to the descending of mankind to earth. Adam and his wife disobeying the command to eat from the forbidden tree is described as a "slip" in the Quran, not a monstrosity of a rebellion as seen in Christianity. Indeed, the Quran also says that before even creating Adam, Allah announced [to the angels] the purpose of Adam and his offspring is to be put on the earth as a vicegerent (Quran 2:30). I define salvation as: 'being preserved in Heaven', and in Islam this is sought through forgiveness. Quran 39:53 Say, “O servants of Mine who have transgressed against their own selves, do not despair of Allah’s Mercy. Surely, Allah will forgive all sins. Surely, He is the One who is the Most Forgiving, the Ever Merciful."
  - diskzero 5y ago
    Thanks for the information and the pointers to the text in the Quran. Time to do some reading!
- nxmnxm99 5y ago
  Nope. The Islamic approach is to optimize to our maxima. Essentially our core purpose is to strive to "find/discover/understand" God through manifesting different values (the 99 names of Allah). The various prophets (Jesus) are those among us who came closest so that understanding and manifestation.
kmmlng 5y ago
Interestingly this sounds like the new agey saying "We are the universe experiencing itself". > Quran 2:115 states that wherever you turn, there is the Face of Allah. So Allah is everything or at least he is IN everything. The universe is everything. > the Quran states that He specifically created mankind to know Him. Mankind experiences Allah, the universe. Would you agree with this kind of mapping or am I making any unjustified leaps here?
- omarfarooq 5y ago
  I would not agree with that because it's pantheism. One meaning for His Face being everywhere is that everything is turned towards Him whether they know it or not, since He is the giver of being. It does not mean a literal encapsulation or identification of the Infinite with the finite. Rather, closer to your sentiment from an Islamic theological perspective is to say that what we experience in the universe is an interplay of His attributes since He is the causer.

nxmnxm99 5y ago

I’ve never understood this argument. What else would god “care” about, if not the only truly sentient creature that we know of? Trillions of light years of pointless rock with a few Apes in the middle who can contemplate God. Seems pretty damn special fo me.

giveexamples 5y ago
Look at your kitchen sink. On that metal lives a billion bacteria cells. Maybe some of them are even sentient. Do you even care to find out? Not really - its far beneath you. Humans are infinitely inferior to a god. We are no different to a moving rock.
- omarfarooq 5y ago
  You're assuming God's values though.
- nxmnxm99 5y ago
  We are the only creature we know of that's capable of reasoning about our own existence and understanding our potential creation. That is a scientific fact of which there is no counterevidence. To deny that in an effort to refute the potential existence of God is to cut off your nose to spite your face.
  - beecafe 5y ago
    This statement can also be taken as one as a limitation of our understanding of the internal lives of other creatures. And there's nothing scientific about it.
    - nxmnxm99 5y ago
      The problem is, if you're going to make that case, the same argument can be applied to a limitation of our understanding of our origin.
- mpfundstein 5y ago

tdrdt 5y ago

There are a million hobbies in this world. Why did you choose the hobby you chose? Because it pleases you. Why did you pick up that one shell at the beach while there are thousands of them? Because your eye fell on it. I am not sure if I understand your argument. If there is a God who is the first and last element, who created everything, why wouldn't his eye fall in love with one element? And why not with all elements?