8 ms·

My vitamin D level is only optimal when taking an average of 11000 IU / day (D3 + K2). It hasn't improved my sleep quality. As an example, I woke up at 3:30 am

My vitamin D level is only optimal when taking an average of 11000 IU / day (D3 + K2). It hasn't improved my sleep quality. As an example, I woke up at 3:30 am this morning and feel like I haven't slept at all.

Lucasoato 5y ago
Maybe your problem doesn't depend on Vitamin D. Have you tried contacting a doctor?
- stooliepidgin 5y ago
  Yeap. Lots of specialists. Many areas are under investigation. One is activation of the There is a possibility of an autoimmune disease like lupus or MS causing dysautonomia. I also have inappropriate sinus tachycardia and hypertension without obvious causes. All roads point towards the autonomic nervous system.
mirekrusin 5y ago
Are you vaping by any chance?
- nolroz 5y ago
  What might this have to do with the topic? Does what you vape or how have an effect?
  - mirekrusin 5y ago
    I think continous nicotine vaping easily induces insomia.
rojeee 5y ago
Not that I'm an expert in sleep but I would recommend assessing your cortisol levels - you can do a blood test and I think there are also saliva tests - if you are regularly waking up early. I'd also recommend reflecting on whether there are any chronic stressors in your life - sometimes these things affect you for so long you almost become unaware of them! I guess you alrready know this but 11000 IU is a massive dose of D3 and probably isn't healthy long term.
- specialist 5y ago
  My cortisol levels were way out of whack. Getting them under control helped. Definitely my first treatment resulting in real benefits. For some of us, insomnia is a multi-factor disease. So I had to do All The Things. My sleep hygiene regiment is a superset of everything listed here. Ultimately, I needed proper diagnosis and then treatment of my sources of chronic pain to attain somewhat healthy sleep patterns. Pinched nerves, aka "bone spurs", in my spine. I definitely had to jump thru all the hoops to get to this point.
  - stooliepidgin 5y ago
    How would someone control their cortisol levels? Maslow's hierarchy of needs, medical/pharma interventions, and/or something else?
    - rojeee 5y ago
      More aerobic exercise, less anerobic exercise, more meditation, etc.
      - jbotz 5y ago
        Magnesium helps with that as well [1] (see my comment above in this thread). In general, magnesium is involved in lots of biological processes, but especially those involving hormones. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33030273/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33030273/
        specialist 5y ago
        Yes and: If OTC magnesium citrate upsets your stomach, maybe try the other variations. I settled on magnesium glycinate lysinate. (Cheaper than magnesium orotate, which also worked for me.)
      - misev 5y ago
        Anaerobic exercise may have a temporary bad effect on cortisol, how are the long-term effects though? In moderation I suspect it is a net positive long-term.
beagle3 5y ago
What time of day are you taking it? Anecdotal, but several accounts I heard from people I know (and some I’ve read — even in this HN discussion, but the most n=1 scientific is gwern) indicate you need to take the vitamin D early in the day or it would harm your sleep quality. It also makes sense biologically, given that you need sunlight to generate it yourself. Again, anecdotal - but detrimental to my sleep if taken after midday. If I can’t take it until 10am, I skip that day
rapsey 5y ago
My insomnia was fixed using vitamin d and magnesium. Magnesium has by far the bigger impact.
- m0zg 5y ago
  Magnesium (in the form of ZMA) is known to increase the vividness of dreams for some reason. Or maybe it's something else in ZMA. I did take it daily when I was lifting heavy, and I can confirm. It's a side benefit in my book, unless your dreams are nightmares.
  - vintermann 5y ago
    This sounds odd, but who am I to disagree? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Seriously though, I can attest that it seems to do something for sleep/dreams, though it's hard to pin down what. Either I remember more dreams, or maybe it makes dreams more distinct as opposed to merely "things you were thinking of as you fell asleep".
  - ryanchants 5y ago
    I take ZMA with 5-HTP to take the edge off the dreams.
hoseja 5y ago
Isn't that way into overdose territory?
- colechristensen 5y ago
  Yes, taking that much vitamin D every day puts you at risk of developing dangerously high blood levels. One of the things it can do is screw with your calcium levels which screws with your nerves which can, for example, make your heart beat abnormal. Don’t do this without the advice of a doctor and regular serum level testing.
  - slothtrop 5y ago
    I expect the K2 would reduce the risk of calcium build-up, but it's still a very high dose which could pose problems.
- loonster 5y ago
  It's in the better be monitoring labwork and taking vitamin d cofators territory. Under Dr supervision, daily vitamin d can be much higher. For example, the Coimbra Protocol for multiple sclerosis can be as high as 40k daily.
slothtrop 5y ago
An intake that high could backfire.
jbotz 5y ago
Try taking a good magnesium supplement. It should be a chelate (for example magnesium glycinate), and depending on your diet somewhere around 2000mg/day of that (chelates are only about 8-15% elemental magnesium). Avoid magnesium oxide (which is what is in a lot of multi-vitamins), it's very poorly absorbed. Most people are noticeable calmer and sleep better when they start supplementing magnesium. Magnesium deficiency is extremely common, and even if you eat a really good diet with lots of whole grains and vegetables you might not be getting quite enough (but in that case about half the above dose may be enough to top you off). Anyway, it won't hurt to try and it's not expensive... if it helps, the cost-benefit is huge.
- mtalantikite 5y ago
  Also a personal anecdote, I've gotten ocular migraines since my teenage years. Five or so years ago I read a study that seemed to have evidence supporting magnesium supplementation for migraines and figured I should try it. It works for me. I rarely get them anymore, but when I do it's almost always when I've run out of the supplement, forgotten to buy more, and haven't taken any for a few weeks (happened two days ago to me actually).

Lucasoato 5y ago

Maybe your problem doesn't depend on Vitamin D. Have you tried contacting a doctor?

stooliepidgin 5y ago
Yeap. Lots of specialists. Many areas are under investigation. One is activation of the There is a possibility of an autoimmune disease like lupus or MS causing dysautonomia. I also have inappropriate sinus tachycardia and hypertension without obvious causes. All roads point towards the autonomic nervous system.

mirekrusin 5y ago

Are you vaping by any chance?

nolroz 5y ago
What might this have to do with the topic? Does what you vape or how have an effect?
- mirekrusin 5y ago
  I think continous nicotine vaping easily induces insomia.

rojeee 5y ago

Not that I'm an expert in sleep but I would recommend assessing your cortisol levels - you can do a blood test and I think there are also saliva tests - if you are regularly waking up early. I'd also recommend reflecting on whether there are any chronic stressors in your life - sometimes these things affect you for so long you almost become unaware of them! I guess you alrready know this but 11000 IU is a massive dose of D3 and probably isn't healthy long term.

specialist 5y ago
My cortisol levels were way out of whack. Getting them under control helped. Definitely my first treatment resulting in real benefits. For some of us, insomnia is a multi-factor disease. So I had to do All The Things. My sleep hygiene regiment is a superset of everything listed here. Ultimately, I needed proper diagnosis and then treatment of my sources of chronic pain to attain somewhat healthy sleep patterns. Pinched nerves, aka "bone spurs", in my spine. I definitely had to jump thru all the hoops to get to this point.
- stooliepidgin 5y ago
  How would someone control their cortisol levels? Maslow's hierarchy of needs, medical/pharma interventions, and/or something else?
  - rojeee 5y ago
    More aerobic exercise, less anerobic exercise, more meditation, etc.
    - jbotz 5y ago
      Magnesium helps with that as well [1] (see my comment above in this thread). In general, magnesium is involved in lots of biological processes, but especially those involving hormones. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33030273/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33030273/
      - specialist 5y ago
        Yes and: If OTC magnesium citrate upsets your stomach, maybe try the other variations. I settled on magnesium glycinate lysinate. (Cheaper than magnesium orotate, which also worked for me.)
    - misev 5y ago
      Anaerobic exercise may have a temporary bad effect on cortisol, how are the long-term effects though? In moderation I suspect it is a net positive long-term.

beagle3 5y ago

What time of day are you taking it? Anecdotal, but several accounts I heard from people I know (and some I’ve read — even in this HN discussion, but the most n=1 scientific is gwern) indicate you need to take the vitamin D early in the day or it would harm your sleep quality. It also makes sense biologically, given that you need sunlight to generate it yourself. Again, anecdotal - but detrimental to my sleep if taken after midday. If I can’t take it until 10am, I skip that day

rapsey 5y ago

My insomnia was fixed using vitamin d and magnesium. Magnesium has by far the bigger impact.

m0zg 5y ago
Magnesium (in the form of ZMA) is known to increase the vividness of dreams for some reason. Or maybe it's something else in ZMA. I did take it daily when I was lifting heavy, and I can confirm. It's a side benefit in my book, unless your dreams are nightmares.
- vintermann 5y ago
  This sounds odd, but who am I to disagree? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Seriously though, I can attest that it seems to do something for sleep/dreams, though it's hard to pin down what. Either I remember more dreams, or maybe it makes dreams more distinct as opposed to merely "things you were thinking of as you fell asleep".
- ryanchants 5y ago
  I take ZMA with 5-HTP to take the edge off the dreams.

hoseja 5y ago

Isn't that way into overdose territory?

colechristensen 5y ago
Yes, taking that much vitamin D every day puts you at risk of developing dangerously high blood levels. One of the things it can do is screw with your calcium levels which screws with your nerves which can, for example, make your heart beat abnormal. Don’t do this without the advice of a doctor and regular serum level testing.
- slothtrop 5y ago
  I expect the K2 would reduce the risk of calcium build-up, but it's still a very high dose which could pose problems.
loonster 5y ago
It's in the better be monitoring labwork and taking vitamin d cofators territory. Under Dr supervision, daily vitamin d can be much higher. For example, the Coimbra Protocol for multiple sclerosis can be as high as 40k daily.

slothtrop 5y ago

An intake that high could backfire.

jbotz 5y ago

Try taking a good magnesium supplement. It should be a chelate (for example magnesium glycinate), and depending on your diet somewhere around 2000mg/day of that (chelates are only about 8-15% elemental magnesium). Avoid magnesium oxide (which is what is in a lot of multi-vitamins), it's very poorly absorbed. Most people are noticeable calmer and sleep better when they start supplementing magnesium. Magnesium deficiency is extremely common, and even if you eat a really good diet with lots of whole grains and vegetables you might not be getting quite enough (but in that case about half the above dose may be enough to top you off). Anyway, it won't hurt to try and it's not expensive... if it helps, the cost-benefit is huge.

mtalantikite 5y ago
Also a personal anecdote, I've gotten ocular migraines since my teenage years. Five or so years ago I read a study that seemed to have evidence supporting magnesium supplementation for migraines and figured I should try it. It works for me. I rarely get them anymore, but when I do it's almost always when I've run out of the supplement, forgotten to buy more, and haven't taken any for a few weeks (happened two days ago to me actually).