5 ms·

They seem to be heavy on vision, marketing and zero-net-carbon partnerships with huge brands, light on technical detail (i wouldn't hate some links to papers or

They seem to be heavy on vision, marketing and zero-net-carbon partnerships with huge brands, light on technical detail (i wouldn't hate some links to papers or a PoC of their reactor or something), all of which feels a little Nikola-y. Thin articles touching on the technology: https://prometheusfuels.com/on-the-road/meet-our-v3-faraday-reactor https://prometheusfuels.com/on-the-road/meet-our-v3-faraday-... https://prometheusfuels.com/on-the-road/worlds-1st-machine-that-sorts-alcohols-from-h2o-without-distillation https://prometheusfuels.com/on-the-road/worlds-1st-machine-t... Hopefully someone can chime in with an explanation of why the technology is viable now (and not in the past) or why Prometheus is equipped to execute on this vision.

mbesto 5y ago
And how a physical good/energy company that is worth $1.5B only has 20 employees...
- kolbe 5y ago
  Welcome to 2021. In a few years, Chase Coleman will pick up large stake in this company, take it public and financially engineer it enough to stuff it into the S&P at a $500bn valuation.
  - femiagbabiaka 5y ago
    Oh yeah. Added to $ARKK and the whole nine yards.
- sayonaraman 5y ago
  most of that funding must have paid for the animations
- splistud 5y ago
  Definitely better valuations on Canadian companies in the carbon-neutral 'area', and better ideas in my opinion
  - ttul 5y ago
    You're missing the link: https://carbonengineering.com/ https://carbonengineering.com/
- whymauri 5y ago
  non equity baring contractors. is my guess, at least.
cfgghsj 5y ago
I found this article written by the CEO in a journal outlining some technical details. https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(20)30002-7.pdf https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(20)30002-7.pdf His breakthrough technology is supposed to be the carbon nanotube membrane as explained here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842240 But, the two papers he cited in the Joule article don't go as far as actually separating water and ethanol. It's questionable whether this is possible or has been done successfully yet. https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1674-0068/25/04/487-493/meta https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1674-0068/25/04/4... https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1700938 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1700938
- alexose 5y ago
  I think it's fair to assume that this technology is feasible at this point. McGinnis' other company, Mattershift, specializes in these kinds of membranes. IIRC they started in the desalination world, but have since found other applications. https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180310-mattershift.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180310-mattershif...
- lowercase1 5y ago
  Yeah the tech seems feasible but I'm skeptical of controlling capital costs when you need carbon nanotubes membranes as a core piece. Air capture is also quite expensive and I'm not sure how much the "only need small concentrations of CO2" trick does.
sschueller 5y ago
Another Elizabeth Holmes?
alexose 5y ago
I've done a decent amount of research on Prometheus Fuels, and I'm a believer. They've licensed a couple of key technologies out of Oak Ridge. First is a catalyst that converts CO2 + H2O + electricity directly into ethanol. The other is a membrane with parallel carbon nanotubes that are just the right size to filter that ethanol. The rest of the business involves the chemical conversion of pure ethanol into other types of hydrocarbons. The result is the ability to efficiently create carbon-netural fuel, effectively capturing a percentage of the electricity as gasoline (or jet fuel, etc). Of course, this is less energy efficient than simply burning fuel that you found in the ground. The advantage is that they can bypass the expensive drilling, refining, and transportation steps and use cheap renewable energy to create fuel literally anywhere they can stick a shipping container. That's the goal, anyway. I really hope they succeed.
- trhway 5y ago
  I myself don't like much how my brain sees Musk everywhere, yet I think similar methanol production will first come from SpaceX for Mars. Also i wonder whether moonshine style distillation is worse than the carbon nanotubes membrane filtration, especially if you have a source of cheap waste heat.
  - uranium 5y ago
    Distillation is pretty expensive, energy-wise, and if you can't run continuously [e.g. if you're trying to use cheap intermittent renewables] you lose energy in the cooling-and-reheating cycles. I have yet to see a significant source of usable "waste" heat that's not already being used for something else. Low-grade heat isn't helpful--you generally need reasonably high temperature differentials in order to power large-scale industrial processes. [Disclosure: I've invested in Prometheus Fuels, but don't speak for them.]
    - corpdronejuly 5y ago
      Well that answers my question about crypto waste heat and useful work.
    - 5y ago
beambot 5y ago
Some of the technical details: https://www.science.org/news/2019/07/former-playwright-aims-turn-solar-and-wind-power-gasoline https://www.science.org/news/2019/07/former-playwright-aims-...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
tlogan 5y ago
I hope they will do it. I see Rob McGinnis (their CEO) has a PhD. Did he publish some papers on this topic before?
- rmcginnis 5y ago
  If you'd like to see some of my publications (including old desalination stuff), check out my Google Scholar page: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=t4ZIFUoAAAAJ&hl=en https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=t4ZIFUoAAAAJ&hl=en
rasz 5y ago
Its nothing like Nikola, its Faraday!

mbesto 5y ago

And how a physical good/energy company that is worth $1.5B only has 20 employees...

kolbe 5y ago
Welcome to 2021. In a few years, Chase Coleman will pick up large stake in this company, take it public and financially engineer it enough to stuff it into the S&P at a $500bn valuation.
- femiagbabiaka 5y ago
  Oh yeah. Added to $ARKK and the whole nine yards.
sayonaraman 5y ago
most of that funding must have paid for the animations
splistud 5y ago
Definitely better valuations on Canadian companies in the carbon-neutral 'area', and better ideas in my opinion
- ttul 5y ago
  You're missing the link: https://carbonengineering.com/ https://carbonengineering.com/
whymauri 5y ago
non equity baring contractors. is my guess, at least.

cfgghsj 5y ago

I found this article written by the CEO in a journal outlining some technical details. https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(20)30002-7.pdf https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(20)30002-7.pdf His breakthrough technology is supposed to be the carbon nanotube membrane as explained here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842240 But, the two papers he cited in the Joule article don't go as far as actually separating water and ethanol. It's questionable whether this is possible or has been done successfully yet. https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1674-0068/25/04/487-493/meta https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1674-0068/25/04/4... https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1700938 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1700938

alexose 5y ago
I think it's fair to assume that this technology is feasible at this point. McGinnis' other company, Mattershift, specializes in these kinds of membranes. IIRC they started in the desalination world, but have since found other applications. https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180310-mattershift.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180310-mattershif...
lowercase1 5y ago
Yeah the tech seems feasible but I'm skeptical of controlling capital costs when you need carbon nanotubes membranes as a core piece. Air capture is also quite expensive and I'm not sure how much the "only need small concentrations of CO2" trick does.

sschueller 5y ago

Another Elizabeth Holmes?

alexose 5y ago

I've done a decent amount of research on Prometheus Fuels, and I'm a believer. They've licensed a couple of key technologies out of Oak Ridge. First is a catalyst that converts CO2 + H2O + electricity directly into ethanol. The other is a membrane with parallel carbon nanotubes that are just the right size to filter that ethanol. The rest of the business involves the chemical conversion of pure ethanol into other types of hydrocarbons. The result is the ability to efficiently create carbon-netural fuel, effectively capturing a percentage of the electricity as gasoline (or jet fuel, etc). Of course, this is less energy efficient than simply burning fuel that you found in the ground. The advantage is that they can bypass the expensive drilling, refining, and transportation steps and use cheap renewable energy to create fuel literally anywhere they can stick a shipping container. That's the goal, anyway. I really hope they succeed.

trhway 5y ago
I myself don't like much how my brain sees Musk everywhere, yet I think similar methanol production will first come from SpaceX for Mars. Also i wonder whether moonshine style distillation is worse than the carbon nanotubes membrane filtration, especially if you have a source of cheap waste heat.
- uranium 5y ago
  Distillation is pretty expensive, energy-wise, and if you can't run continuously [e.g. if you're trying to use cheap intermittent renewables] you lose energy in the cooling-and-reheating cycles. I have yet to see a significant source of usable "waste" heat that's not already being used for something else. Low-grade heat isn't helpful--you generally need reasonably high temperature differentials in order to power large-scale industrial processes. [Disclosure: I've invested in Prometheus Fuels, but don't speak for them.]
  - corpdronejuly 5y ago
    Well that answers my question about crypto waste heat and useful work.
  - 5y ago

beambot 5y ago

Some of the technical details: https://www.science.org/news/2019/07/former-playwright-aims-turn-solar-and-wind-power-gasoline https://www.science.org/news/2019/07/former-playwright-aims-...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

tlogan 5y ago

I hope they will do it. I see Rob McGinnis (their CEO) has a PhD. Did he publish some papers on this topic before?

rmcginnis 5y ago
If you'd like to see some of my publications (including old desalination stuff), check out my Google Scholar page: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=t4ZIFUoAAAAJ&hl=en https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=t4ZIFUoAAAAJ&hl=en

rasz 5y ago

Its nothing like Nikola, its Faraday!