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Maybe it’s because the education system has failed at critical thinking.

midev 5y ago
> Maybe it’s because the education system has failed at critical thinking Sure, education can improve things. But this is a problem even worse outside the United States, so it's hard to blame it on a single education system.
- ArneBab 5y ago
  It’s not just the education system. It’s our structures of information that are based on engagement (to drive ad-revenue) instead of value to the reader. And this is something Freenet actually solves to some degree. Because it had to. This is why in Freenet we know the Zen of Tolerance: https://www.draketo.de/politik/random-babcom#the-zen-of-tolerance https://www.draketo.de/politik/random-babcom#the-zen-of-tole... - You are entitled to voice your opinion. - You are not entitled to force it upon everyone. - You are not entitled to force it upon a subgroup repeatedly. - You are also not entitled to hurl hate towards participants, since that would disrupt communication. - If you cannot stay respectful and friendly after being asked to, I will unsee you and advise others to do the same with a clear and brief explanation, so they can take an informed decision.
  - cto_of_antifa 5y ago
    The problem with the the idea of tolerance in discourse like online communities is the paradox of tolerance: that we must necessarily be tolerant to intolerance. Ideas that call for violence of all sorts don't need to be articulated in an ugly way. In fact, the most effective rhetoric isn't. For example, think of the "just asking questions" style of representing an argument. This is the sort of rhetoric that places like hackernews is incredibly susceptible to, since it unironically subscribes to that same idea of the "free marketplace of ideas" that's blind to the difference between the content of speech and its actual effects. Think of it this way: what's the applied use of "debunking the argument" of somebody yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater?

> Maybe it’s because the education system has failed at critical thinking Sure, education can improve things. But this is a problem even worse outside the United States, so it's hard to blame it on a single education system.

ArneBab 5y ago
It’s not just the education system. It’s our structures of information that are based on engagement (to drive ad-revenue) instead of value to the reader. And this is something Freenet actually solves to some degree. Because it had to. This is why in Freenet we know the Zen of Tolerance: https://www.draketo.de/politik/random-babcom#the-zen-of-tolerance https://www.draketo.de/politik/random-babcom#the-zen-of-tole... - You are entitled to voice your opinion. - You are not entitled to force it upon everyone. - You are not entitled to force it upon a subgroup repeatedly. - You are also not entitled to hurl hate towards participants, since that would disrupt communication. - If you cannot stay respectful and friendly after being asked to, I will unsee you and advise others to do the same with a clear and brief explanation, so they can take an informed decision.
- cto_of_antifa 5y ago
  The problem with the the idea of tolerance in discourse like online communities is the paradox of tolerance: that we must necessarily be tolerant to intolerance. Ideas that call for violence of all sorts don't need to be articulated in an ugly way. In fact, the most effective rhetoric isn't. For example, think of the "just asking questions" style of representing an argument. This is the sort of rhetoric that places like hackernews is incredibly susceptible to, since it unironically subscribes to that same idea of the "free marketplace of ideas" that's blind to the difference between the content of speech and its actual effects. Think of it this way: what's the applied use of "debunking the argument" of somebody yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater?