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I heard from a non-Mormon who went to BYU and said the intolerance there was so awful, that students would walk up to you and ask, "Are you a Mormon?" and if yo

I heard from a non-Mormon who went to BYU and said the intolerance there was so awful, that students would walk up to you and ask, "Are you a Mormon?" and if you said no, they would just walk away like you didn't even exist.

indiejade 18y ago
-1 This is like saying: "I heard from somebody who has never been to Tonga that Tongans are dumb." Second-hand tales ala "I heard from . . ." rarely relay facts. (creative downmodding from someone who doesn't post enough to have a downmodding arrow) p.s. how many points is it these days?
- byrneseyeview 18y ago
  For what it's worth, I've heard the same thing from a Mormon who went there and didn't like how some of the other Mormons behaved.
  - pchristensen 18y ago
    I'm Mormon, I went there, and there were lots of people whose behavior I didn't like. There were also a lot more whose behavior I did like. Mormons make up 95% of the 30K student body, so if there's anyone there you don't like, they're probably a Mormon. Mormons are a big enough group (especially at BYU) that standard statistical rules apply - some are jerks, some are racist, some are angels, some and the nicest people in the world, and most are decent people with the usual character flaws. There are over 5 million Mormons in America and 12 million in the world, so they're too big to stereotype as individuals, any more than Americans, Mexicans, Catholics, Muslims, left handers, computer programmers, etc.
    - byrneseyeview 18y ago
      I'm not claiming that the single distinguishing feature of Mormons is that they're universally unkind to outsiders, but when you deal with an unusual group, it's the outliers who can really show you that there's something unusual going on. Just for example, it would completely blow my mind if I found out that there was an auto mechanic who had the same curiosity, panache, explanatory talent, etc. as Richard Feynman. This isn't because I think mechanics are all dumber than physicists, or that there aren't some smart mechanics or some dumb physicists (I know one person who I believe was a mechanic before becoming a physicist). But hearing about another Feynman-style physicist would not be such a big deal. Similarly, the average Mormon is probably fairly indistinguishable from the average American, or the average resident of whatever country that Mormon lives in. But when you look at the outliers -- the ones with really nasty in-group hostility, the ones who work eighty hours a week and do volunteer work on weekends, the ones to whom seven kids would be a 'good start' -- you figure Mormons might be half a standard deviation more in-group centered, industrious, and fertile. And at that point, it's just Bayesian inference: you find out someone is a Mormon, you change your estimates of the chance that they have other characteristics, too. they're too big to stereotype as individuals, any more than Americans, Mexicans, Catholics, Muslims, left handers, computer programmers, etc. I stereotype all of these groups in the same ways. It may be misguided, but it's a good way to experience your surprises in bulk and in advance. Always efficient.
sofal 18y ago
Disclaimer: I don't speak for BYU. I went to BYU. I'm sorry to hear that your friend had that kind of experience. I believe that everyone I went to school with would have considered that very intolerant and rude indeed. I hope that's far from the experience of all students there who aren't LDS. Some of the points in the blurb about BYU are accurate, but some are misleading and false. BYU is a private religious institution, and it therefore has stricter rules about conduct, appearance, and behavior. These rules, together called the "Honor Code", are accepted by every student before he/she attends. These standards are a big part of the reason for the students' desire to attend BYU. Abstaining from tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol, and illicit drugs is already part of the LDS belief system. The idea that students are required to abstain from flirting is ludicrous, and reveals that the author(s) must either be ignorant or must have misinterpreted their information. There is no end to flirting at BYU, unless you define flirting to include crudity and lewdness. "Sexual comments" was an interesting addition to the list. As a student at BYU, you are expected to use clean language and adhere to high moral standards, and so I suppose if by "sexual comments" they mean "vulgar or crass sexual comments" then this is true. These are all things that may perhaps be labeled as "intolerant" by some, but which I agree with. The facial hair rule I think is old-fashioned and unnecessary. I and a lot of others think that blocking YouTube on the campus network is disgusting and verging on communism (I can't stand forced web filtering of any kind). Tunneling worked though, and the CS network didn't block YouTube, so that was nice.
- KirinDave 18y ago
  A cousin of mine explained the dietary restrictions to me. For the full effect, please indulge me as I enter a brief bit of real dialogue with the names stripped: Me: "So how is BYU, _____? Enjoying your first semester away from home?" Her: "It's great, I'm having a lot of fun. But I don't think you'd like it very much." Me: "Why not? I went to college too, you know. Is it because I'm not mormon?" Her: "There's that." pauses to open a can of Coke "But you're also required to abstain from things like tea and coffee. You'd have to give up caffeine, and I know you'd hate that." Me: looking pointedly at her can of coke "You have to give up drinks with caffeine in it?" Her: pausing again to drink her soda "Yes. The Honor Code says we can't drink tea, coffee or anything with alcohol in it." Me: "But soda is okay?" Her: "Yeah, unless it has, like, drugs in it or something." I checked the BYU website. Coffee and tea are verboten, Soda is not. I even found pictures of people drinking coke on campus. Way to go, BYU. Your dietary restrictions are super-good.

indiejade 18y ago

-1 This is like saying: "I heard from somebody who has never been to Tonga that Tongans are dumb." Second-hand tales ala "I heard from . . ." rarely relay facts. (creative downmodding from someone who doesn't post enough to have a downmodding arrow) p.s. how many points is it these days?

byrneseyeview 18y ago
For what it's worth, I've heard the same thing from a Mormon who went there and didn't like how some of the other Mormons behaved.
- pchristensen 18y ago
  I'm Mormon, I went there, and there were lots of people whose behavior I didn't like. There were also a lot more whose behavior I did like. Mormons make up 95% of the 30K student body, so if there's anyone there you don't like, they're probably a Mormon. Mormons are a big enough group (especially at BYU) that standard statistical rules apply - some are jerks, some are racist, some are angels, some and the nicest people in the world, and most are decent people with the usual character flaws. There are over 5 million Mormons in America and 12 million in the world, so they're too big to stereotype as individuals, any more than Americans, Mexicans, Catholics, Muslims, left handers, computer programmers, etc.
  - byrneseyeview 18y ago
    I'm not claiming that the single distinguishing feature of Mormons is that they're universally unkind to outsiders, but when you deal with an unusual group, it's the outliers who can really show you that there's something unusual going on. Just for example, it would completely blow my mind if I found out that there was an auto mechanic who had the same curiosity, panache, explanatory talent, etc. as Richard Feynman. This isn't because I think mechanics are all dumber than physicists, or that there aren't some smart mechanics or some dumb physicists (I know one person who I believe was a mechanic before becoming a physicist). But hearing about another Feynman-style physicist would not be such a big deal. Similarly, the average Mormon is probably fairly indistinguishable from the average American, or the average resident of whatever country that Mormon lives in. But when you look at the outliers -- the ones with really nasty in-group hostility, the ones who work eighty hours a week and do volunteer work on weekends, the ones to whom seven kids would be a 'good start' -- you figure Mormons might be half a standard deviation more in-group centered, industrious, and fertile. And at that point, it's just Bayesian inference: you find out someone is a Mormon, you change your estimates of the chance that they have other characteristics, too. they're too big to stereotype as individuals, any more than Americans, Mexicans, Catholics, Muslims, left handers, computer programmers, etc. I stereotype all of these groups in the same ways. It may be misguided, but it's a good way to experience your surprises in bulk and in advance. Always efficient.

sofal 18y ago

Disclaimer: I don't speak for BYU. I went to BYU. I'm sorry to hear that your friend had that kind of experience. I believe that everyone I went to school with would have considered that very intolerant and rude indeed. I hope that's far from the experience of all students there who aren't LDS. Some of the points in the blurb about BYU are accurate, but some are misleading and false. BYU is a private religious institution, and it therefore has stricter rules about conduct, appearance, and behavior. These rules, together called the "Honor Code", are accepted by every student before he/she attends. These standards are a big part of the reason for the students' desire to attend BYU. Abstaining from tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol, and illicit drugs is already part of the LDS belief system. The idea that students are required to abstain from flirting is ludicrous, and reveals that the author(s) must either be ignorant or must have misinterpreted their information. There is no end to flirting at BYU, unless you define flirting to include crudity and lewdness. "Sexual comments" was an interesting addition to the list. As a student at BYU, you are expected to use clean language and adhere to high moral standards, and so I suppose if by "sexual comments" they mean "vulgar or crass sexual comments" then this is true. These are all things that may perhaps be labeled as "intolerant" by some, but which I agree with. The facial hair rule I think is old-fashioned and unnecessary. I and a lot of others think that blocking YouTube on the campus network is disgusting and verging on communism (I can't stand forced web filtering of any kind). Tunneling worked though, and the CS network didn't block YouTube, so that was nice.

KirinDave 18y ago
A cousin of mine explained the dietary restrictions to me. For the full effect, please indulge me as I enter a brief bit of real dialogue with the names stripped: Me: "So how is BYU, _____? Enjoying your first semester away from home?" Her: "It's great, I'm having a lot of fun. But I don't think you'd like it very much." Me: "Why not? I went to college too, you know. Is it because I'm not mormon?" Her: "There's that." pauses to open a can of Coke "But you're also required to abstain from things like tea and coffee. You'd have to give up caffeine, and I know you'd hate that." Me: looking pointedly at her can of coke "You have to give up drinks with caffeine in it?" Her: pausing again to drink her soda "Yes. The Honor Code says we can't drink tea, coffee or anything with alcohol in it." Me: "But soda is okay?" Her: "Yeah, unless it has, like, drugs in it or something." I checked the BYU website. Coffee and tea are verboten, Soda is not. I even found pictures of people drinking coke on campus. Way to go, BYU. Your dietary restrictions are super-good.