5 ms·

While I am confident there is a rational scientific explanation for the hexagon of Saturn, it is undoubtedly an incredible synchronicity that the storm exists.

While I am confident there is a rational scientific explanation for the hexagon of Saturn, it is undoubtedly an incredible synchronicity that the storm exists. Saturn being the sixth planet from the sun it has historically been associated with the hexagon within occult symbolism since well before humans could have verified such a storm exists. Truly a remarkable find and fact of our solar system.

ethbr0 5y ago
I'd say the locals went a bit overboard with their tourism billboard, but I suppose 27,600 km across isn't too big relative to the distance it might be seen at.
lemurian 5y ago
Another fun scenario to consider: if you could hop in a time machine and show these pictures to your favorite historical figure with occult interests (Pythagoras, Plato, Newton, John Dee), they wouldn't be surprised at all. "Oh yeah, we've known about that one FOREVER!"
- night862 5y ago
  I doubt they knew about the hexagonal storms, i dont have any idea if any 2000 y/o figures at all had any idea about planets, but maybe this could be a humorous rick and morty plot twist. To change the subject almost completely to "weird things Plato argued", Plato recounted an interesting myth about the origin of sexes in the Symposium, that essentially humans were once male and female, with 4 arms and 4 legs and 2 faces, basically two people fused back-to-back. If you examine human phylogeny, you will see that this isn't exactly true, but it's kinda close. Female and Male sex organs are derived from one structure in fetal development, the "gonad", which resolves into one or the other organ later during development. The full structure of male and female sex organs are actually rather visually similar (if you remove them and isolate the organ from the body, of course). But the proto-humans or duplex-humans, not sure what its called, were too fast/strong/versatile because of these extra limbs and extra brain, Plato sort of inserting here the notion that maybe because they had 4 arms they were sort of 2x as strong/fast, these critters began scaling mount Olympus with the intention of challenging the gods, and it made Zeus a little nervous, or really i guess recognize that there would have to be a solution, even though he did not want to destroy the humans, he couldn't allow this challenge to continue. Resultantly, Zeus decided to split the humans in two This would weaken the humans but allow them to continue most of their mortal endeavors. As a side effect, instead of vying for the power of the Olympians, they would be too rapt with lust, love, procreation to challenge the gods any longer. Kind of cute I guess, that since they were separated in such a fashion, humans would forever yearn for wholeness that can come only from reunion with their actual other half :P Thanks Zeus. You've really ruined a lot of my weekends.
  - risk000 5y ago
    This is retold in musical form in quite a lovely way by Hedwig and the Angry Inch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJUNH-Fs4EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJUNH-Fs4EA
    - night862 5y ago
      I’ve never seen that before, ill have to watch the whole movie. Thanks, that’s stellar.
  - pfortuny 5y ago
    FTR: planet=wanderer in Greek. They were called “wandering stars” by the Romans. Because they were the celestial bodies which did not move according to the general pattern.
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    > the proto-humans... would be to rapt with lust... The entire history is basically an excuse for the old "hey, we should sleep together and have fun" (shrug). Maybe it worked fine for Plato.
    - night862 5y ago
      Heh, maybe not-as far as I am aware he didn't have a wife or any children that we know about. but it seems like he thought about it a lot :)
      - pvaldes 5y ago
        Plato wrote a lot about love relationships between men. Is a typical grooming tale that he was teaching to his alumni. Is easy to follow the dots here.
        dash2 5y ago
        Actually in the Symposium it is Aristophanes who tells this story, as a deliberately funny and absurd way of explaining how crazy love is. It features both heterosexual and homosexual couples (these are just halves of four-legged creatures that were male/female or male/male or female/female respectively). The real argument of the Symposium is that Alcibiades' love for Socrates leads him towards the true good, which is philosophy.
elihu 5y ago
As weird as the Saturn hexagon is, I think the oddly symmetrical polar storms of Jupiter have it beat in terms of "gawp factor". Also the ridge on Iapetus is worth an honorable mention if we're talking about things that don't look like they belong in nature. What a strange place this solar system is.
- jkubicek 5y ago
  Iapetus Ridge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_ridge_on_Iapetus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_ridge_on_Iapetus Polar Storms of Jupiter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter#Circumpolar_cyclones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter#Circumpo...
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    Hum, I just realized that those polar storms would turn easily into the hexagon if they just lose power (or would be covered by another layer of material over it). Both are probably the same phenomenon. More strong in Jupiter, less in Saturn. Tornados would explain also why is a tall shape The hexagon should gyrate slower (with less energy) than the jupiter storms. Neptune should have also the same process but is colder I'm not wrong, so maybe it has less energy and is not so easily visible.
    - pvaldes 5y ago
      Yep, here is the Neptune hexagon... same pattern, same process https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/neptune-voyager-images-updated-for-portrait-of-the-eighth-planet.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/neptune-voyager-images-...
- bolasanibk 5y ago
  More weirdness in our Solar System Mimas - A moon of Saturn which from certain angles looks like a death star. [1] Hyperion - Another moon of Saturn which looks like a sponge. [2] Phobos - A moon of Mars with a huge crater on one end.[3] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimas_%28moon%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimas_%28moon%29 [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(moon) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(moon) [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_(moon) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_(moon)
anothernewdude 5y ago
It's what a wave looks like wrapped around a pole.
reality_inspctr 5y ago
Also the hexagon and circle being so similar to carbon. Like the team logo for consciousness.
eternalban 5y ago
Note that the idea of "6th planet" implies the ancients had placed the Earth in the 3rd rock position, which is news. It has nothing to do with a positional order. Saturn is the alchemical Lead, with symbol: . But speaking of "syncronicity", consulting my copy of C. G. Jung's Alchemical Studies, on pages 226-8 he writes: "But the most important of all for an interpretation of Mercurius is his relation to Saturn. Mercurius senex is identical with Saturn, and to the earlier alchemists especially, it is not quicksilver, but the lead associated with Saturn, which usually represents the prima materia. In the Arabic text of the Turba quicksilver is identical with the 'waters of moon and Saturn'. In the 'Dicta Belini', Saturn says: 'My spirit is the water that loosens rigid limbs of my brothers'. This refers to the 'eternal water' which is just what Mercurius is. [...] Like Mercurius, Saturn is hermaphroditic. Saturn is 'an old man on a mountain, in him the natures are bound with their complement [i.e. the four elements], and all this is in Saturn'. [...] the Gnostic teaching [is] that Kronos (Saturn) is a 'power of the colour of water' which destroys everything, since 'water is destruction'. "Like the planetary spirit of Mercurius, the spirit of Saturn is 'very suited to this work'. One of the manifestations of Mercurius in the alchemical process of tranformation is the lion, now green and now red. Khunrath calls this transformation "luring the lion out of Saturn's mountain cave'. From ancient times the lion was associated with Saturn. Khunrath calls him the 'lion of the Catholic tribe', paraphrasing the 'lion of the tribe of Judah' -- an allegory of Christ. He calls Saturn 'the lion green and red'. In Gnosticism Saturn is the highest archon, the lion-headed Ialdabaoth, meaning 'Child of Chaos'. But in alchemy the child of chaos is Mercurius. "The relation to and identity with Saturn is important because Saturn is not only a maleficus but actually the dwelling place of the devil himself. Even as the highest archon and demiurge his Gnostic reputation was not the best. According to one Catholistic source, Beelzebub was associated with him [i.e. Mercurius]. Mylius says that if Mercurius were to be purified, then Lucifer would fall from heaven. [...] Khunrath says: 'Good with the good, Evil the the evil.'" Based on that, we can see that the occult Hexagram -- closely related to the 11th ("Peace") and 12th ("Stagnation") Hexagrams of the I-Ching -- is a reference to the intertwined trinities of Good (white triangle) and Evil (black triangle), which depending on the orientation (per the I-Ching) denote either positive or negative spiritual transformations.
- lolthishuman 5y ago
thaumasiotes 5y ago
> Saturn being the sixth planet from the sun it has historically been associated with the hexagon within occult symbolism since well before humans could have verified such a storm exists. By who? There can't be a traditional association for the obvious reason that, until fairly recently, there were only 5 planets and there was no way to know which of them were how far from the Sun.
- sdenton4 5y ago
  Wikipedia puts discovery of the first six planets under 'prehistoric.' https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_discovery_of_Solar_System_planets_and_their_moons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_discovery_of_Sol...
  - macksd 5y ago
    I thought we weren't able to chart their orbits and thus know their orderings until the last few centuries. I'm sure we recognized them as being brighter than stars, visible as more than points of light, with non-sidereal motion, and we gave them names. But I don't think we knew Saturn was 6th "prehistorically".
    - sdenton4 5y ago
      Here's some more fun reading: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos "... an ancient Greek astronomer and mathematician who presented the first known heliocentric model that placed the Sun at the center of the known universe, with the Earth revolving around the Sun once a year and rotating about its axis once a day. He was influenced by the concept presented by Philolaus of Croton (c. 470 – 385 BC) of a fire at the center of the universe, but Aristarchus identified the "central fire" with the Sun and he put the other planets in their correct order of distance around the Sun.[2]" The ancients were smarter than we think, usually.
    - irrational 5y ago
      Wouldn’t they be able to know/guess based on the fact that it took longer to orbit the sun than Jupiter?
lolthishuman 5y ago
Probably has nothing to do with the massive electromagnetic generator geometry occurring as an interaction between Io and Saturn. It also probably has nothing to do with the fact that a hexagonal geometry for antennas are known to be well suited for particular methods of electromagnetic interaction. It’s also probably just chance that the South Pole glows just the same.
jacobolus 5y ago
As mentioned already, ancient peoples didn’t know that Earth is 3rd planet from the sun and Saturn is 6th. But Saturn also has a ~30 earth-year long year, which means it goes about 1/12 of the way around its orbit each Earth year, relevant to hexagons which have symmetry axes at 12ths of a turn. (No idea if this is the source of any association between Saturn and hexagons.)
- jacobolus 5y ago
  Er, wait a sec, that doesn’t make any sense. Chalk it up to tiredness. With a ~30 Earth-year long year, Saturn of course goes about 1/30 of the way around its orbit each Earth year; this would just as closely relate it to a pentagon as a hexagon. It’s Jupiter with a ~12 Earth-year long year that would go about 1/12 of the way around its orbit each Earth year. Saturn and Jupiter together have orbits that return to about the same state every ~60 years.

ethbr0 5y ago

I'd say the locals went a bit overboard with their tourism billboard, but I suppose 27,600 km across isn't too big relative to the distance it might be seen at.

lemurian 5y ago

Another fun scenario to consider: if you could hop in a time machine and show these pictures to your favorite historical figure with occult interests (Pythagoras, Plato, Newton, John Dee), they wouldn't be surprised at all. "Oh yeah, we've known about that one FOREVER!"

night862 5y ago
I doubt they knew about the hexagonal storms, i dont have any idea if any 2000 y/o figures at all had any idea about planets, but maybe this could be a humorous rick and morty plot twist. To change the subject almost completely to "weird things Plato argued", Plato recounted an interesting myth about the origin of sexes in the Symposium, that essentially humans were once male and female, with 4 arms and 4 legs and 2 faces, basically two people fused back-to-back. If you examine human phylogeny, you will see that this isn't exactly true, but it's kinda close. Female and Male sex organs are derived from one structure in fetal development, the "gonad", which resolves into one or the other organ later during development. The full structure of male and female sex organs are actually rather visually similar (if you remove them and isolate the organ from the body, of course). But the proto-humans or duplex-humans, not sure what its called, were too fast/strong/versatile because of these extra limbs and extra brain, Plato sort of inserting here the notion that maybe because they had 4 arms they were sort of 2x as strong/fast, these critters began scaling mount Olympus with the intention of challenging the gods, and it made Zeus a little nervous, or really i guess recognize that there would have to be a solution, even though he did not want to destroy the humans, he couldn't allow this challenge to continue. Resultantly, Zeus decided to split the humans in two This would weaken the humans but allow them to continue most of their mortal endeavors. As a side effect, instead of vying for the power of the Olympians, they would be too rapt with lust, love, procreation to challenge the gods any longer. Kind of cute I guess, that since they were separated in such a fashion, humans would forever yearn for wholeness that can come only from reunion with their actual other half :P Thanks Zeus. You've really ruined a lot of my weekends.
- risk000 5y ago
  This is retold in musical form in quite a lovely way by Hedwig and the Angry Inch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJUNH-Fs4EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJUNH-Fs4EA
  - night862 5y ago
    I’ve never seen that before, ill have to watch the whole movie. Thanks, that’s stellar.
- pfortuny 5y ago
  FTR: planet=wanderer in Greek. They were called “wandering stars” by the Romans. Because they were the celestial bodies which did not move according to the general pattern.
- pvaldes 5y ago
  > the proto-humans... would be to rapt with lust... The entire history is basically an excuse for the old "hey, we should sleep together and have fun" (shrug). Maybe it worked fine for Plato.
  - night862 5y ago
    Heh, maybe not-as far as I am aware he didn't have a wife or any children that we know about. but it seems like he thought about it a lot :)
    - pvaldes 5y ago
      Plato wrote a lot about love relationships between men. Is a typical grooming tale that he was teaching to his alumni. Is easy to follow the dots here.
      - dash2 5y ago
        Actually in the Symposium it is Aristophanes who tells this story, as a deliberately funny and absurd way of explaining how crazy love is. It features both heterosexual and homosexual couples (these are just halves of four-legged creatures that were male/female or male/male or female/female respectively). The real argument of the Symposium is that Alcibiades' love for Socrates leads him towards the true good, which is philosophy.

elihu 5y ago

As weird as the Saturn hexagon is, I think the oddly symmetrical polar storms of Jupiter have it beat in terms of "gawp factor". Also the ridge on Iapetus is worth an honorable mention if we're talking about things that don't look like they belong in nature. What a strange place this solar system is.

jkubicek 5y ago
Iapetus Ridge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_ridge_on_Iapetus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_ridge_on_Iapetus Polar Storms of Jupiter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter#Circumpolar_cyclones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter#Circumpo...
- pvaldes 5y ago
  Hum, I just realized that those polar storms would turn easily into the hexagon if they just lose power (or would be covered by another layer of material over it). Both are probably the same phenomenon. More strong in Jupiter, less in Saturn. Tornados would explain also why is a tall shape The hexagon should gyrate slower (with less energy) than the jupiter storms. Neptune should have also the same process but is colder I'm not wrong, so maybe it has less energy and is not so easily visible.
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    Yep, here is the Neptune hexagon... same pattern, same process https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/neptune-voyager-images-updated-for-portrait-of-the-eighth-planet.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/neptune-voyager-images-...
bolasanibk 5y ago
More weirdness in our Solar System Mimas - A moon of Saturn which from certain angles looks like a death star. [1] Hyperion - Another moon of Saturn which looks like a sponge. [2] Phobos - A moon of Mars with a huge crater on one end.[3] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimas_%28moon%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimas_%28moon%29 [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(moon) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(moon) [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_(moon) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_(moon)

anothernewdude 5y ago

It's what a wave looks like wrapped around a pole.

reality_inspctr 5y ago

Also the hexagon and circle being so similar to carbon. Like the team logo for consciousness.

eternalban 5y ago

Note that the idea of "6th planet" implies the ancients had placed the Earth in the 3rd rock position, which is news. It has nothing to do with a positional order. Saturn is the alchemical Lead, with symbol: . But speaking of "syncronicity", consulting my copy of C. G. Jung's Alchemical Studies, on pages 226-8 he writes: "But the most important of all for an interpretation of Mercurius is his relation to Saturn. Mercurius senex is identical with Saturn, and to the earlier alchemists especially, it is not quicksilver, but the lead associated with Saturn, which usually represents the prima materia. In the Arabic text of the Turba quicksilver is identical with the 'waters of moon and Saturn'. In the 'Dicta Belini', Saturn says: 'My spirit is the water that loosens rigid limbs of my brothers'. This refers to the 'eternal water' which is just what Mercurius is. [...] Like Mercurius, Saturn is hermaphroditic. Saturn is 'an old man on a mountain, in him the natures are bound with their complement [i.e. the four elements], and all this is in Saturn'. [...] the Gnostic teaching [is] that Kronos (Saturn) is a 'power of the colour of water' which destroys everything, since 'water is destruction'. "Like the planetary spirit of Mercurius, the spirit of Saturn is 'very suited to this work'. One of the manifestations of Mercurius in the alchemical process of tranformation is the lion, now green and now red. Khunrath calls this transformation "luring the lion out of Saturn's mountain cave'. From ancient times the lion was associated with Saturn. Khunrath calls him the 'lion of the Catholic tribe', paraphrasing the 'lion of the tribe of Judah' -- an allegory of Christ. He calls Saturn 'the lion green and red'. In Gnosticism Saturn is the highest archon, the lion-headed Ialdabaoth, meaning 'Child of Chaos'. But in alchemy the child of chaos is Mercurius. "The relation to and identity with Saturn is important because Saturn is not only a maleficus but actually the dwelling place of the devil himself. Even as the highest archon and demiurge his Gnostic reputation was not the best. According to one Catholistic source, Beelzebub was associated with him [i.e. Mercurius]. Mylius says that if Mercurius were to be purified, then Lucifer would fall from heaven. [...] Khunrath says: 'Good with the good, Evil the the evil.'" Based on that, we can see that the occult Hexagram -- closely related to the 11th ("Peace") and 12th ("Stagnation") Hexagrams of the I-Ching -- is a reference to the intertwined trinities of Good (white triangle) and Evil (black triangle), which depending on the orientation (per the I-Ching) denote either positive or negative spiritual transformations.

lolthishuman 5y ago

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> Saturn being the sixth planet from the sun it has historically been associated with the hexagon within occult symbolism since well before humans could have verified such a storm exists. By who? There can't be a traditional association for the obvious reason that, until fairly recently, there were only 5 planets and there was no way to know which of them were how far from the Sun.

sdenton4 5y ago
Wikipedia puts discovery of the first six planets under 'prehistoric.' https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_discovery_of_Solar_System_planets_and_their_moons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_discovery_of_Sol...
- macksd 5y ago
  I thought we weren't able to chart their orbits and thus know their orderings until the last few centuries. I'm sure we recognized them as being brighter than stars, visible as more than points of light, with non-sidereal motion, and we gave them names. But I don't think we knew Saturn was 6th "prehistorically".
  - sdenton4 5y ago
    Here's some more fun reading: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos "... an ancient Greek astronomer and mathematician who presented the first known heliocentric model that placed the Sun at the center of the known universe, with the Earth revolving around the Sun once a year and rotating about its axis once a day. He was influenced by the concept presented by Philolaus of Croton (c. 470 – 385 BC) of a fire at the center of the universe, but Aristarchus identified the "central fire" with the Sun and he put the other planets in their correct order of distance around the Sun.[2]" The ancients were smarter than we think, usually.
  - irrational 5y ago
    Wouldn’t they be able to know/guess based on the fact that it took longer to orbit the sun than Jupiter?

lolthishuman 5y ago

Probably has nothing to do with the massive electromagnetic generator geometry occurring as an interaction between Io and Saturn. It also probably has nothing to do with the fact that a hexagonal geometry for antennas are known to be well suited for particular methods of electromagnetic interaction. It’s also probably just chance that the South Pole glows just the same.

jacobolus 5y ago

As mentioned already, ancient peoples didn’t know that Earth is 3rd planet from the sun and Saturn is 6th. But Saturn also has a ~30 earth-year long year, which means it goes about 1/12 of the way around its orbit each Earth year, relevant to hexagons which have symmetry axes at 12ths of a turn. (No idea if this is the source of any association between Saturn and hexagons.)

jacobolus 5y ago
Er, wait a sec, that doesn’t make any sense. Chalk it up to tiredness. With a ~30 Earth-year long year, Saturn of course goes about 1/30 of the way around its orbit each Earth year; this would just as closely relate it to a pentagon as a hexagon. It’s Jupiter with a ~12 Earth-year long year that would go about 1/12 of the way around its orbit each Earth year. Saturn and Jupiter together have orbits that return to about the same state every ~60 years.