7 ms·

I would like to read a point-by-point critique of Shadowstats but have yet to come across one. The wikis you've listed are more muckraking in nature than a tech

I would like to read a point-by-point critique of Shadowstats but have yet to come across one. The wikis you've listed are more muckraking in nature than a technical rebuttal. A poorly done critique increases rather than diminishes the credibility of the target.

tacostakohashi 5y ago
Try this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/17/the-intellectual-cesspool-of-the-inflation-truthers/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/17/the-i...
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  Even more simply - Shadowstats consumer inflation calculator thinks we've had at least 7% inflation up until ~2010 and then 10+% since then. (http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-cpi.gif?hl=ad&t=1628692430 http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-cpi.gif?hl=ad&t=16286924...) What in your life costs 500%+ more than it did in 1995 for the same product? No need for in-depth debunking when it's self-evidently nonsense.
  - loeg 5y ago
    > What in your life costs 500%+ more than it did in 1995 for the same product? Reflexively, I thought of housing (Seattle area), but apparently that has only increased by 270% since 1995.[1] [1]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS42644Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS42644Q
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      Yep - there are certainly some bubbles of costs that have increased substantially, but think about the tech in your pocket (1995 was the era of $500/GB hard drives - https://external-preview.redd.it/-ArYBjQcq6Go7QbkY5-Os9FFOtZtVMH9x-wNfoLPW88.jpg?auto=webp&s=992b55850d3665bb1cc6af6dde56e222c42e8929 https://external-preview.redd.it/-ArYBjQcq6Go7QbkY5-Os9FFOtZ... and terrible $5,000 Gateway laptops) or the car in your driveway. A new Civic costs something like 80% more than a 1995 one and is a remarkably nicer car. Gas prices are up something like 200% since then (but basically unchanged since the mid 2000s), but cars are far more fuel efficient so even that impact is blunted.. groceries, appliances, furniture, restaurants, entertainment...
      - symlinkk 5y ago
        Yeah, the vast majority of millennials and later generations can’t afford a place of their own and are destined to be rent slaves for years, but think about the amount of Tik Tok videos you have in your pocket!
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - loeg 5y ago
        Yeah, I guess healthcare is the other major one that's increased in cost. Although I'm not sure that's at literally 500% from 1995 either.
amznthrwaway 5y ago
A point by point critique is the wrong approach when dealing with this sort of nonsense, because only cranks fall for the shadow stats shtick. And candidly, if somebody is stupid enough to look at a claim of 10%YoY inflation for 2 decades and think it’s true… that person will not be persuaded by any type of fact. They’re either not capable of or not interested in learning the truth. As such, it’s best to just write off anybody dumb enough to fall into the nonsense, don’t litigate the little lies, and just show that the big picture is obviously wrong.

tacostakohashi 5y ago

Try this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/17/the-intellectual-cesspool-of-the-inflation-truthers/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/17/the-i...

mikeyouse 5y ago
Even more simply - Shadowstats consumer inflation calculator thinks we've had at least 7% inflation up until ~2010 and then 10+% since then. (http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-cpi.gif?hl=ad&t=1628692430 http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-cpi.gif?hl=ad&t=16286924...) What in your life costs 500%+ more than it did in 1995 for the same product? No need for in-depth debunking when it's self-evidently nonsense.
- loeg 5y ago
  > What in your life costs 500%+ more than it did in 1995 for the same product? Reflexively, I thought of housing (Seattle area), but apparently that has only increased by 270% since 1995.[1] [1]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS42644Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS42644Q
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    Yep - there are certainly some bubbles of costs that have increased substantially, but think about the tech in your pocket (1995 was the era of $500/GB hard drives - https://external-preview.redd.it/-ArYBjQcq6Go7QbkY5-Os9FFOtZtVMH9x-wNfoLPW88.jpg?auto=webp&s=992b55850d3665bb1cc6af6dde56e222c42e8929 https://external-preview.redd.it/-ArYBjQcq6Go7QbkY5-Os9FFOtZ... and terrible $5,000 Gateway laptops) or the car in your driveway. A new Civic costs something like 80% more than a 1995 one and is a remarkably nicer car. Gas prices are up something like 200% since then (but basically unchanged since the mid 2000s), but cars are far more fuel efficient so even that impact is blunted.. groceries, appliances, furniture, restaurants, entertainment...
    - symlinkk 5y ago
      Yeah, the vast majority of millennials and later generations can’t afford a place of their own and are destined to be rent slaves for years, but think about the amount of Tik Tok videos you have in your pocket!
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - loeg 5y ago
      Yeah, I guess healthcare is the other major one that's increased in cost. Although I'm not sure that's at literally 500% from 1995 either.

amznthrwaway 5y ago

A point by point critique is the wrong approach when dealing with this sort of nonsense, because only cranks fall for the shadow stats shtick. And candidly, if somebody is stupid enough to look at a claim of 10%YoY inflation for 2 decades and think it’s true… that person will not be persuaded by any type of fact. They’re either not capable of or not interested in learning the truth. As such, it’s best to just write off anybody dumb enough to fall into the nonsense, don’t litigate the little lies, and just show that the big picture is obviously wrong.