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What could have they done ? Im not trying to say that what happened isn’t so bad , I just don’t see how with today international justice cooperation someone co

by asien 5y ago

What could have they done ? Im not trying to say that what happened isn’t so bad , I just don’t see how with today international justice cooperation someone could truly expect « privacy ». Wether this is a from a service provider or directly from your ISP, it’s not possible to get privacy unless your rely on private peer to peer network.

southerntofu 5y ago
They could have refused to comply with an unfair request granted through back channels via the french political police and a landowner's mafia. Go to court as a host, let the prosecutor present "proofs" that this person deserves to be prosecuted under international law, which they don't have because this is a clear case of political repression. Let the judge laugh at the ridicule of the case, or worst case scenario comply with the judge's order, which would hopefully give enough time to the targeted person to know they're a target by now and stop using Protonmail altogether (or do it via tor). That's what a responsible host does. I don't have the same standard for smaller, non-profit hosts. But for a big organization with vast sums of money like Protonmail i would expect no less. What's next, cooperating with chinese political police?
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > refused to comply with an unfair request granted through back channels via the french political police Your solution to a lawful request is covert backchanneling to the police of a foreign nation?
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    No, i meant that's how the request was granted in the first place.
- windthrown 5y ago
  The "request" came in the form of a legally binding order from the Swiss Federal Department of Justice. They have stated that there was not a legal possiblity to challenge in this case after the Swiss DOJ made their determination. You suggest "go to court" but there was apparently not a means to do so. Judges aren't private arbiters and don't hear random cases at the request of companies
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
upofadown 5y ago
It seems that people were not just expecting privacy but anonymity based on the fact that Protonmail does not generally keep IP addresses. That seems to be an unrealistic expectation. General anonymity is not something you can just buy. It only lasts for a limited time and takes considerable work on the part of the user. It was obvious to me when I encountered the claim in question that it was about preventing the commercial exploitation of personal data and not some fundamental discovery that changed the normal exceptions of what was achievable in terms of anonymity.
- viktorcode 5y ago
  Apple's private relay is a good example of how one can buy an anonymous IP address.
  - asien 5y ago
    Apple private relay leak your IP from what i remember[0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28339110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28339110
    - viktorcode 5y ago
      I believe Apple's private relay do not work with WebRTC protocol by design; it is intended for HTTP(S). As proof of concept it shows that there may be a viable commercial privacy-centric communication mechanism which works by not letting the service providers know their clients IPs.

by asien 5y ago

southerntofu 5y ago

They could have refused to comply with an unfair request granted through back channels via the french political police and a landowner's mafia. Go to court as a host, let the prosecutor present "proofs" that this person deserves to be prosecuted under international law, which they don't have because this is a clear case of political repression. Let the judge laugh at the ridicule of the case, or worst case scenario comply with the judge's order, which would hopefully give enough time to the targeted person to know they're a target by now and stop using Protonmail altogether (or do it via tor). That's what a responsible host does. I don't have the same standard for smaller, non-profit hosts. But for a big organization with vast sums of money like Protonmail i would expect no less. What's next, cooperating with chinese political police?

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> refused to comply with an unfair request granted through back channels via the french political police Your solution to a lawful request is covert backchanneling to the police of a foreign nation?
- southerntofu 5y ago
  No, i meant that's how the request was granted in the first place.
windthrown 5y ago
The "request" came in the form of a legally binding order from the Swiss Federal Department of Justice. They have stated that there was not a legal possiblity to challenge in this case after the Swiss DOJ made their determination. You suggest "go to court" but there was apparently not a means to do so. Judges aren't private arbiters and don't hear random cases at the request of companies
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

upofadown 5y ago

It seems that people were not just expecting privacy but anonymity based on the fact that Protonmail does not generally keep IP addresses. That seems to be an unrealistic expectation. General anonymity is not something you can just buy. It only lasts for a limited time and takes considerable work on the part of the user. It was obvious to me when I encountered the claim in question that it was about preventing the commercial exploitation of personal data and not some fundamental discovery that changed the normal exceptions of what was achievable in terms of anonymity.

viktorcode 5y ago
Apple's private relay is a good example of how one can buy an anonymous IP address.
- asien 5y ago
  Apple private relay leak your IP from what i remember[0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28339110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28339110
  - viktorcode 5y ago
    I believe Apple's private relay do not work with WebRTC protocol by design; it is intended for HTTP(S). As proof of concept it shows that there may be a viable commercial privacy-centric communication mechanism which works by not letting the service providers know their clients IPs.