7 ms·

I don't have any experience with the housing issue in California, but got involved a while back trying to find pragmatic solutions in Seattle. The situation is

by j8hn 5y ago

I don't have any experience with the housing issue in California, but got involved a while back trying to find pragmatic solutions in Seattle. The situation is a mess and there is an entire "homeless industrial complex" complicating matters here, rife with fraud, misspending and cronyism. Every year it seems like many millions of dollars more are spent on this issue but it keeps getting visibly worse. At first I was in the "Housing First" crowd, but after my experiences I would say I more firmly believe in "Rehab First". A local news station released a great documentary called "Seattle is Dying". It has 10 million views since released a couple of years ago. https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw The sequel is "The Fight For the Soul of Seattle". https://youtu.be/WijoL3Hy_Bw https://youtu.be/WijoL3Hy_Bw

AngryData 5y ago
How about rehab and housing at the same time? Many people didn't become serious addicts until after they became homeless.
- j8hn 5y ago
  In regards to those living on the streets, the main cause of them being homeless is substance abuse and mental illness.
  - Johnythree 5y ago
    And the main reason for substance abuse is the lack of jobs and the lack of hope. The reason that most people stay clean is the need to get up and go to work the next day. And the reason they go to work is because it will give them a better standard of living. Take away permanent jobs, reasonable wages, affordable housing, and many people will simply give up hope.
    - j8hn 5y ago
      Is the main reason for substance abuse really lack of jobs and lack of hope? I'm curious where you got your data from.
pydry 5y ago
>Every year it seems like many millions of dollars more are spent on this issue but it keeps getting visibly worse. Because home prices and rents keep going up. Homelessness is an inevitable side effect of that. Funneling money on rehab rather than providing places to actually live cant fix that. It's attacking a symptom not the cause. However, attacking the cause (property prices/rents) would make a lot of very rich, very powerful people very angry - all backed by an army of overleveraged homeowners terrified of negative equity. Until property owners are apoplectic with fury about declining property values I doubt the problem will stop getting worse.
- postalrat 5y ago
  Why do you favor blaming rent for homelessness instead of lack of jobs that pay well enough? Why can some people afford the rent while others can't? If you are after a single root cause of homelessness you will be disappointed. Unless you only care to push an agenda.
  - bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
    The thought that there can be enough jobs that pay “well enough” is a myth. There are only so many jobs that can provide the wages needed for rent in a given city, and there are always more people that want it than have it. Of course there is no single root cause but if I had to point one out I would finger the stagnation of real wages.
    - mbrodersen 5y ago
      Also don’t forget that you can have high unemployment and lots of available jobs at the same time if the skills doesn’t match up. It is complete rubbish and false to claim that we can train anybody to do any job.
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    Link local minimum wage to three times median rent for a 2 bedroom apartment, then. Solve both problems! :) (EDIT: assuming you have policy to maintain full employment…)
mbrodersen 5y ago
What continues to amaze me is that the US completely ignore successful programs run in other countries. The US spent more $ per person on education, healthcare, homelessness etc. and get consistently worse results than countries in Europe for example. I wonder if it is a weird “US #1” kinda thing that makes it impossible to admit that the US can learn from other countries? Or is there some other explanation? Perhaps an unwillingness to actually solve those problems because of a general individualistic/selfish/not my problems mentality?

by j8hn 5y ago

AngryData 5y ago

How about rehab and housing at the same time? Many people didn't become serious addicts until after they became homeless.

j8hn 5y ago
In regards to those living on the streets, the main cause of them being homeless is substance abuse and mental illness.
- Johnythree 5y ago
  And the main reason for substance abuse is the lack of jobs and the lack of hope. The reason that most people stay clean is the need to get up and go to work the next day. And the reason they go to work is because it will give them a better standard of living. Take away permanent jobs, reasonable wages, affordable housing, and many people will simply give up hope.
  - j8hn 5y ago
    Is the main reason for substance abuse really lack of jobs and lack of hope? I'm curious where you got your data from.

pydry 5y ago

>Every year it seems like many millions of dollars more are spent on this issue but it keeps getting visibly worse. Because home prices and rents keep going up. Homelessness is an inevitable side effect of that. Funneling money on rehab rather than providing places to actually live cant fix that. It's attacking a symptom not the cause. However, attacking the cause (property prices/rents) would make a lot of very rich, very powerful people very angry - all backed by an army of overleveraged homeowners terrified of negative equity. Until property owners are apoplectic with fury about declining property values I doubt the problem will stop getting worse.

postalrat 5y ago
Why do you favor blaming rent for homelessness instead of lack of jobs that pay well enough? Why can some people afford the rent while others can't? If you are after a single root cause of homelessness you will be disappointed. Unless you only care to push an agenda.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
  The thought that there can be enough jobs that pay “well enough” is a myth. There are only so many jobs that can provide the wages needed for rent in a given city, and there are always more people that want it than have it. Of course there is no single root cause but if I had to point one out I would finger the stagnation of real wages.
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    Also don’t forget that you can have high unemployment and lots of available jobs at the same time if the skills doesn’t match up. It is complete rubbish and false to claim that we can train anybody to do any job.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Link local minimum wage to three times median rent for a 2 bedroom apartment, then. Solve both problems! :) (EDIT: assuming you have policy to maintain full employment…)

mbrodersen 5y ago

What continues to amaze me is that the US completely ignore successful programs run in other countries. The US spent more $ per person on education, healthcare, homelessness etc. and get consistently worse results than countries in Europe for example. I wonder if it is a weird “US #1” kinda thing that makes it impossible to admit that the US can learn from other countries? Or is there some other explanation? Perhaps an unwillingness to actually solve those problems because of a general individualistic/selfish/not my problems mentality?