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It is, actually. Once you restrict what others can say there's no freedom of speech anymore. It's like China saying you can't talk about the regime - I'm sure t

by nsizx 5y ago

It is, actually. Once you restrict what others can say there's no freedom of speech anymore. It's like China saying you can't talk about the regime - I'm sure they consider that "basic human decency" as well.

M2Ys4U 5y ago
>Once you restrict what others can say there's no freedom of speech anymore. If you go by that definition then there is no country on Earth that has freedom of speech. And that's a good thing because that definition is completely and utterly insane; Absolute freedom of speech would be a catastrophe.
Kaze404 5y ago
Freedom of speech isn't freedom to be a bigot. You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to listen.
- JadeNB 5y ago
  > Freedom of speech isn't freedom to be a bigot. You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to listen. To be clear, it is freedom to be a bigot, or at least to say bigoted things, just not freedom to have anyone else listen to those things (or, as hopefully goes without saying, for any action based on those bigoted things that goes beyond words).
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    > just not freedom to have anyone else listen to those things This implies freedom to remember you say bigoted things and proactively avoid you.
    - JadeNB 5y ago
      > This implies freedom to remember you say bigoted things and proactively avoid you. Certainly. Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences, as they say.
      - dane-pgp 5y ago
        “There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech.” ― Idi Amin https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9082497-there-is-freedom-of-speech-but-i-cannot-guarantee-freedom https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9082497-there-is-freedom-of...
        JadeNB 5y ago
        That's not the company into which I'd prefer to be lumped as a believer in free speech with consequences. I'm not sure whether or not that was your point ….
        dane-pgp 5y ago
        I'm saying that unless you're really careful to specify what sort of "consequences" you're talking about, it's hard to separate your beliefs from his.
        JadeNB 5y ago
        > I'm saying that unless you're really careful to specify what sort of "consequences" you're talking about, it's hard to separate your beliefs from his. Since you refer to them as "my beliefs", I assume that yours are different. With no sarcasm, what are your beliefs? If you argue against the claim that freedom of speech does not entail freedom from consequences, is your position that freedom of speech should come with freedom from consequences? Surely it's not hard to imagine how that, too, can be a dangerous position to take.
        FeepingCreature 5y ago
        Different poster, but I believe that freedom of speech not just does, but must come with freedom from consequences to be at all meaningful. Of course, there is nowhere that actually has that level of freedom of speech, but seen as a spectrum it makes sense. Freedom of speech is freedom from consequences: - of government reprisals - of corporate reprisals - of criminal reprisals - of employment risks - of relationship risks. Pick and choose which matter to you. To me, freedom of speech applies to all, but other rights such as freedom of association sometimes override it. (And sometimes not.)
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Exactly it's why I send money to ACLU and EFF. I'll spend money to help defend your right to say what you want, but I'll be damned if I have to listen to your BS on my own time. I'm just there to stop the government from outlawing freedom of speech.
dgb23 5y ago
It's not a restriction of freedom of speech. This is just exercising freedom of association. "If you're an asshole, I won't broadcast your stuff." People are still free to be assholes, but the platform is free to not associate themselves with the assholes. Very simple.
- Kye 5y ago
  It's even open source. Anyone who disagrees with the project's listing policy can make their own list. https://source.joinmastodon.org/mastodon/joinmastodon https://source.joinmastodon.org/mastodon/joinmastodon

by nsizx 5y ago

M2Ys4U 5y ago

>Once you restrict what others can say there's no freedom of speech anymore. If you go by that definition then there is no country on Earth that has freedom of speech. And that's a good thing because that definition is completely and utterly insane; Absolute freedom of speech would be a catastrophe.

Kaze404 5y ago

Freedom of speech isn't freedom to be a bigot. You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to listen.

JadeNB 5y ago
> Freedom of speech isn't freedom to be a bigot. You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to listen. To be clear, it is freedom to be a bigot, or at least to say bigoted things, just not freedom to have anyone else listen to those things (or, as hopefully goes without saying, for any action based on those bigoted things that goes beyond words).
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  > just not freedom to have anyone else listen to those things This implies freedom to remember you say bigoted things and proactively avoid you.
  - JadeNB 5y ago
    > This implies freedom to remember you say bigoted things and proactively avoid you. Certainly. Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences, as they say.
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      “There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech.” ― Idi Amin https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9082497-there-is-freedom-of-speech-but-i-cannot-guarantee-freedom https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9082497-there-is-freedom-of...
      - JadeNB 5y ago
        That's not the company into which I'd prefer to be lumped as a believer in free speech with consequences. I'm not sure whether or not that was your point ….
        dane-pgp 5y ago
        I'm saying that unless you're really careful to specify what sort of "consequences" you're talking about, it's hard to separate your beliefs from his.
        JadeNB 5y ago
        > I'm saying that unless you're really careful to specify what sort of "consequences" you're talking about, it's hard to separate your beliefs from his. Since you refer to them as "my beliefs", I assume that yours are different. With no sarcasm, what are your beliefs? If you argue against the claim that freedom of speech does not entail freedom from consequences, is your position that freedom of speech should come with freedom from consequences? Surely it's not hard to imagine how that, too, can be a dangerous position to take.
        FeepingCreature 5y ago
        Different poster, but I believe that freedom of speech not just does, but must come with freedom from consequences to be at all meaningful. Of course, there is nowhere that actually has that level of freedom of speech, but seen as a spectrum it makes sense. Freedom of speech is freedom from consequences: - of government reprisals - of corporate reprisals - of criminal reprisals - of employment risks - of relationship risks. Pick and choose which matter to you. To me, freedom of speech applies to all, but other rights such as freedom of association sometimes override it. (And sometimes not.)
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Exactly it's why I send money to ACLU and EFF. I'll spend money to help defend your right to say what you want, but I'll be damned if I have to listen to your BS on my own time. I'm just there to stop the government from outlawing freedom of speech.

dgb23 5y ago

It's not a restriction of freedom of speech. This is just exercising freedom of association. "If you're an asshole, I won't broadcast your stuff." People are still free to be assholes, but the platform is free to not associate themselves with the assholes. Very simple.

Kye 5y ago
It's even open source. Anyone who disagrees with the project's listing policy can make their own list. https://source.joinmastodon.org/mastodon/joinmastodon https://source.joinmastodon.org/mastodon/joinmastodon