6 ms·

I live very close. Summers here fucking suck. You can't go out from 12 until at least 20. The socialist government has allowed the price of electricity to soar

by nsizx 5y ago

I live very close. Summers here fucking suck. You can't go out from 12 until at least 20. The socialist government has allowed the price of electricity to soar so high (I think the higher it's been in decades) that many people simply cannot afford to turn on their air conditioners anymore. It really, really sucks.

lmilcin 5y ago
"Allowed price of electricity to soar". You mean, they have free market that responds to demand? Where is the socialism in it? Also, what's up with throwing expletives?
- mercy_dude 5y ago
  I think the OP meant lack of competition. Prices are controlled by one or two public utilities companies and I agree summer in Southern Europe kind of sucks these days with extreme heat and lack of air conditioning. I lived in Houston,TX where we used to have hot summer as well but it was bearable with air conditioning s as we would Just simply stay in
  - mempko 5y ago
    Markets don't have anything to do with capitalism/socialism. There are capitalist places without markets, and socialist places with them.
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    I am not Spanish but I still know how to read and use Google. https://rightcasa.com/spanish-utilities-electricity,-gas-and-water/ https://rightcasa.com/spanish-utilities-electricity,-gas-and... "The main electricity companies in Spain include Grupo Endesa (the largest), Iberdrola, Union Fenosa and Hidrocantábrico. Like many other countries, the energy market has been completely opened up, allowing customers to choose which supplier they use (...)" So, are they lying or not?
    - nsizx 5y ago
      Over 50% of the electricity bill is taxes. Example: https://www.iberdrola.es/webclipb/gc/prod/es_ES/estaticos/informacion-util/comprende-tu-factura/imgs/u31485.png https://www.iberdrola.es/webclipb/gc/prod/es_ES/estaticos/in...
      - lmilcin 5y ago
        So... you are complaining most of the bill goes back to the budget rather than to a private company? Listen, your country needs to pay for infrastructure some way. That money has to find its way from your pocket to the budget, there are no miracles here. At least with electricity bill you have option to use less electricity and pay less taxes. Would you like it to be levied on some things you can't decide to use less? If you think your country costs too much, vote for people that promise to make the government cost less.
        nsizx 5y ago
        The cost of the infrastructure is not part of the >50% of taxes you pay. It's in the other part. You'd know that if you read the screenshot I posted. And saying you have the option of using less electricity. Really laughable, sorry. I guess I'll turn off my refrigerator.
    - anthk 5y ago
      We have a goverment'regulated and an unregulated market. Often the regulated power contract is cheaper on the long term.
  - anthk 5y ago
    Man, your region couldn´t barely stay alive in Winter due to hard power shortages. The issue in Spain it´s like a Texas ultra-light version of that. As I stated in the tread the Spanish goverment regulated power contract is the cheapest option compared to the ones in the free market, and companies have to comply by law so they can offer a regulated contract to the customer. It´s mandatory, but the sad story here is that not everyone is aware of that and power contracts are hard as fuck to understand. Now they even printed math summatories to ¨explain¨ the power spending to the ¨common folk¨ as if everyone got a pre-calculus diploma. Kafquesque.
    - 988747 5y ago
      To be fair, Texas is roughly in the same latitude as Sahara - a winter like the last one is basically once-in-a-lifetime occurence. Kind of makes sense not to prepare for it.
      - s5300 5y ago
        It most certainly does not make sense not to prepare for it when scientists have been telling you this issue will be coming for a few decades now. Key words - prepare, and will be coming
        988747 5y ago
        To paraphrase famous saying from the stock markets: climate scientists predicted 50 of the last 2 severe winters. At some point you get the "boy that cried wolf" problem.
        s5300 5y ago
        While you're missing the point, What was the $ damages/lost due to the recent grid failure vs the $ for the winterization of the wind & nat gas plants? Don't really care about exact numbers, ratio of the two is fine. I'm sure an obvious statement will be seen in said ratio.
- sp332 5y ago
  You would defend a free market that kills people as long as it makes more money? And if you can't swear when people are fucking dying then when would be more appropriate?
anthk 5y ago
Both PP, PNV and PSOE have ties with gas and power companies. It doesn´t matter who is in charge.
contravariant 5y ago
Current energy prices are caused by a high gas price and the lack of wind. Blame whichever government decided to stop with investing more in renewable energy in 2012 (particularly solar power) and praise whichever government decided to start investing again in 2018.
- franciscop 5y ago
  According to [1] high prices are produced by, mainly, a tax hike on CO2 emission and secondly by the high gas price. In fact nuclear power (which is the cheapest and safest) has been in decline the last decades, which is shameful since it has prompted burning more fossil fuels and many more thousands of indirect deaths. We should go from nuclear straight to renewable, not to fossil fuels as we are (or buying nuclear from France). [1] https://www.eleconomista.es/empresas-finanzas/noticias/11355408/08/21/El-Banco-de-Espana-explica-por-que-se-dispara-el-precio-de-una-luz-que-vuelve-a-marcar-maximos-historicos.html https://www.eleconomista.es/empresas-finanzas/noticias/11355...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Retric 5y ago
    Nuclear is crazy expensive, which is a big part of why it’s in decline globally. Even with serious subsidies it just can’t compete with other sources. Just look at what unsubsidized insurance would cost to cover the full amount of any possible nuclear disaster. Realize nobody forces them to pay that and they still can’t compete on the open market. There is plenty of talk around lowering cost of construction, but even if you got a new reactor for build free it still wouldn’t be cost effective to operate and decommission it without subsidies if you’re only paid market rates for power.
    - Shadonototro 5y ago
      again, the problem is always money maybe we should eliminate money from the equation? it seems to be very limiting
zxspectrum1982 5y ago
_price of electricity to soar so high (I think the higher it's been in decades)_ Highest since there are records, i. e. in History. Shameful.
LeoPanthera 5y ago
I suspect you are being knee-jerk downvoted because in the USA being critical of anything "socialist" often implies you have right or far-right political views. People should be aware that the current ruling party in Spain is the "Spanish Socialist Workers' Party", so "socialist" is not being used as an insult here, it is an accurate description. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers%27_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers%27_P...

by nsizx 5y ago

lmilcin 5y ago

"Allowed price of electricity to soar". You mean, they have free market that responds to demand? Where is the socialism in it? Also, what's up with throwing expletives?

mercy_dude 5y ago
I think the OP meant lack of competition. Prices are controlled by one or two public utilities companies and I agree summer in Southern Europe kind of sucks these days with extreme heat and lack of air conditioning. I lived in Houston,TX where we used to have hot summer as well but it was bearable with air conditioning s as we would Just simply stay in
- mempko 5y ago
  Markets don't have anything to do with capitalism/socialism. There are capitalist places without markets, and socialist places with them.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  I am not Spanish but I still know how to read and use Google. https://rightcasa.com/spanish-utilities-electricity,-gas-and-water/ https://rightcasa.com/spanish-utilities-electricity,-gas-and... "The main electricity companies in Spain include Grupo Endesa (the largest), Iberdrola, Union Fenosa and Hidrocantábrico. Like many other countries, the energy market has been completely opened up, allowing customers to choose which supplier they use (...)" So, are they lying or not?
  - nsizx 5y ago
    Over 50% of the electricity bill is taxes. Example: https://www.iberdrola.es/webclipb/gc/prod/es_ES/estaticos/informacion-util/comprende-tu-factura/imgs/u31485.png https://www.iberdrola.es/webclipb/gc/prod/es_ES/estaticos/in...
    - lmilcin 5y ago
      So... you are complaining most of the bill goes back to the budget rather than to a private company? Listen, your country needs to pay for infrastructure some way. That money has to find its way from your pocket to the budget, there are no miracles here. At least with electricity bill you have option to use less electricity and pay less taxes. Would you like it to be levied on some things you can't decide to use less? If you think your country costs too much, vote for people that promise to make the government cost less.
      - nsizx 5y ago
        The cost of the infrastructure is not part of the >50% of taxes you pay. It's in the other part. You'd know that if you read the screenshot I posted. And saying you have the option of using less electricity. Really laughable, sorry. I guess I'll turn off my refrigerator.
  - anthk 5y ago
    We have a goverment'regulated and an unregulated market. Often the regulated power contract is cheaper on the long term.
- anthk 5y ago
  Man, your region couldn´t barely stay alive in Winter due to hard power shortages. The issue in Spain it´s like a Texas ultra-light version of that. As I stated in the tread the Spanish goverment regulated power contract is the cheapest option compared to the ones in the free market, and companies have to comply by law so they can offer a regulated contract to the customer. It´s mandatory, but the sad story here is that not everyone is aware of that and power contracts are hard as fuck to understand. Now they even printed math summatories to ¨explain¨ the power spending to the ¨common folk¨ as if everyone got a pre-calculus diploma. Kafquesque.
  - 988747 5y ago
    To be fair, Texas is roughly in the same latitude as Sahara - a winter like the last one is basically once-in-a-lifetime occurence. Kind of makes sense not to prepare for it.
    - s5300 5y ago
      It most certainly does not make sense not to prepare for it when scientists have been telling you this issue will be coming for a few decades now. Key words - prepare, and will be coming
      - 988747 5y ago
        To paraphrase famous saying from the stock markets: climate scientists predicted 50 of the last 2 severe winters. At some point you get the "boy that cried wolf" problem.
        s5300 5y ago
        While you're missing the point, What was the $ damages/lost due to the recent grid failure vs the $ for the winterization of the wind & nat gas plants? Don't really care about exact numbers, ratio of the two is fine. I'm sure an obvious statement will be seen in said ratio.
sp332 5y ago
You would defend a free market that kills people as long as it makes more money? And if you can't swear when people are fucking dying then when would be more appropriate?

anthk 5y ago

Both PP, PNV and PSOE have ties with gas and power companies. It doesn´t matter who is in charge.

contravariant 5y ago

Current energy prices are caused by a high gas price and the lack of wind. Blame whichever government decided to stop with investing more in renewable energy in 2012 (particularly solar power) and praise whichever government decided to start investing again in 2018.

franciscop 5y ago
According to [1] high prices are produced by, mainly, a tax hike on CO2 emission and secondly by the high gas price. In fact nuclear power (which is the cheapest and safest) has been in decline the last decades, which is shameful since it has prompted burning more fossil fuels and many more thousands of indirect deaths. We should go from nuclear straight to renewable, not to fossil fuels as we are (or buying nuclear from France). [1] https://www.eleconomista.es/empresas-finanzas/noticias/11355408/08/21/El-Banco-de-Espana-explica-por-que-se-dispara-el-precio-de-una-luz-que-vuelve-a-marcar-maximos-historicos.html https://www.eleconomista.es/empresas-finanzas/noticias/11355...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 5y ago
  Nuclear is crazy expensive, which is a big part of why it’s in decline globally. Even with serious subsidies it just can’t compete with other sources. Just look at what unsubsidized insurance would cost to cover the full amount of any possible nuclear disaster. Realize nobody forces them to pay that and they still can’t compete on the open market. There is plenty of talk around lowering cost of construction, but even if you got a new reactor for build free it still wouldn’t be cost effective to operate and decommission it without subsidies if you’re only paid market rates for power.
  - Shadonototro 5y ago
    again, the problem is always money maybe we should eliminate money from the equation? it seems to be very limiting

zxspectrum1982 5y ago

_price of electricity to soar so high (I think the higher it's been in decades)_ Highest since there are records, i. e. in History. Shameful.

LeoPanthera 5y ago

I suspect you are being knee-jerk downvoted because in the USA being critical of anything "socialist" often implies you have right or far-right political views. People should be aware that the current ruling party in Spain is the "Spanish Socialist Workers' Party", so "socialist" is not being used as an insult here, it is an accurate description. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers%27_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers%27_P...