7 ms·

I agree and I hate two things about SPAs. - Works terrible in bad networks. - And the thing I hate the most is the shifting of images, links when the page is

I agree and I hate two things about SPAs. - Works terrible in bad networks. - And the thing I hate the most is the shifting of images, links when the page is still loading. But this may be a implementation issue.

GrumpyNl 5y ago
"- And the thing I hate the most is the shifting of images, links when the page is still loading. But this may be a implementation issue." Thats just bad design.
- unlimit 5y ago
  I suspected that too, but I do not know enough about these reactive frameworks to be 100% sure. But as a user of such apps, it is absolutely frustrating.
  - Normal_gaussian 5y ago
    To stop jumping you need to explicitly size yet-to-load sections. Without JS this means giving images explicit sizing, with JS this means any section can be dynamically loaded and, therefore, jump. So good design takes into account dynamic loading and places size bounds accordingly. Reactive libraries/frameworks don't explicitly make this worse or better, except their presence implies a high chance of dynamic loading and, therefore, more opportunity for bad design. In addition most component libraries fail to communicate /who/ needs to size a component and if it is ever dynamic. It really doesn't help that most 'official' examples fail to resolve these issues.
- jeffreygoesto 5y ago
  So at least in this aspect, bad design sense to have gotten a lot easier.
- pc86 5y ago
  Something endemic to SPAs.
capableweb 5y ago
As is common when people rant about SPAs, your dislike (at least as written here) is not actually about SPAs but other things > Works terrible in bad networks Yes, software traditionally works shitty under bad network conditions unless the developer actively tests under bad network conditions or has previous experience of handling bad network conditions. This is as much true for anything developed ever that touches a network. > the shifting of images This is simply developers missing to add width and height attributes to their <img/> elements. This has been happening since the dawn of the <img/> element and is unlikely to disappear. Also has nothing to do with SPAs, same happens with server-rendered HTML.
- jbverschoor 5y ago
  > unless the developer actively tests under bad network conditions > This is simply developers missing That's the whole thing. SPA = state. It requires a lot of dev time to properly handle everything. With stateless applications, you can simply refresh your browser. The sluggishness is not only because of bad network conditions, but it's multiplied by the huge application that has to be sent over the network, application initialization, and the many subsequent network requests.
  - hazz99 5y ago
    > The sluggishness is not only because of bad network conditions, but it's multiplied by the huge application that has to be sent over the network, application initialization, and the many subsequent network requests. A "huge" application can be broken up with code splitting/dynamic imports. Initialisation can be seeded with serverside data or saved in browser storage between pages. The only semi-unavoidable part is the "subsequent network requests", but even these can be sped up with caching, batching, etc. > It requires a lot of dev time to properly handle everything. But yeah, these things take effort
    - jbverschoor 5y ago
      The network requests could be done with more intelligent apis But if you take everything into account, you can also develop a really good native app. This is not reality.
piokoch 5y ago
"shifting of images" So much truth, not once I was trying to click on some image that had link underneath, and it suddenly moved to some other place and I ended clicking something different.
tannhaeuser 5y ago
A truly intolerable thing about SPAs and JavaScript is that regular HTTP caching of images and fonts had to be limited because JS APIs can be and are used for fingerprinting, driving the whole web thing ad absurdum. Switching off JS/fingerprinting doesn't really help either since it'll just disproportionally benefit Google's stronghold on web analytics even more.
- IX-103 5y ago
  Fingerprinting is not just JS. Fingerprinting is possible just using CSS rules alone. The bigger issue, which seems to be what you are complaining about seems to be the gaping hole in privacy provided by 3rd party storage/resources. That is not a particular problem with SPAs, and can even be exploited without JavaScript. I'm not sure where you're coming from regarding Google and web analytics. When 3rd party storage is gone (or partitioned) it sounds like everyone would be on the same page in terms of what data they can collect.

GrumpyNl 5y ago

"- And the thing I hate the most is the shifting of images, links when the page is still loading. But this may be a implementation issue." Thats just bad design.

unlimit 5y ago
I suspected that too, but I do not know enough about these reactive frameworks to be 100% sure. But as a user of such apps, it is absolutely frustrating.
- Normal_gaussian 5y ago
  To stop jumping you need to explicitly size yet-to-load sections. Without JS this means giving images explicit sizing, with JS this means any section can be dynamically loaded and, therefore, jump. So good design takes into account dynamic loading and places size bounds accordingly. Reactive libraries/frameworks don't explicitly make this worse or better, except their presence implies a high chance of dynamic loading and, therefore, more opportunity for bad design. In addition most component libraries fail to communicate /who/ needs to size a component and if it is ever dynamic. It really doesn't help that most 'official' examples fail to resolve these issues.
jeffreygoesto 5y ago
So at least in this aspect, bad design sense to have gotten a lot easier.
pc86 5y ago
Something endemic to SPAs.

capableweb 5y ago

As is common when people rant about SPAs, your dislike (at least as written here) is not actually about SPAs but other things > Works terrible in bad networks Yes, software traditionally works shitty under bad network conditions unless the developer actively tests under bad network conditions or has previous experience of handling bad network conditions. This is as much true for anything developed ever that touches a network. > the shifting of images This is simply developers missing to add width and height attributes to their <img/> elements. This has been happening since the dawn of the <img/> element and is unlikely to disappear. Also has nothing to do with SPAs, same happens with server-rendered HTML.

jbverschoor 5y ago
> unless the developer actively tests under bad network conditions > This is simply developers missing That's the whole thing. SPA = state. It requires a lot of dev time to properly handle everything. With stateless applications, you can simply refresh your browser. The sluggishness is not only because of bad network conditions, but it's multiplied by the huge application that has to be sent over the network, application initialization, and the many subsequent network requests.
- hazz99 5y ago
  > The sluggishness is not only because of bad network conditions, but it's multiplied by the huge application that has to be sent over the network, application initialization, and the many subsequent network requests. A "huge" application can be broken up with code splitting/dynamic imports. Initialisation can be seeded with serverside data or saved in browser storage between pages. The only semi-unavoidable part is the "subsequent network requests", but even these can be sped up with caching, batching, etc. > It requires a lot of dev time to properly handle everything. But yeah, these things take effort
  - jbverschoor 5y ago
    The network requests could be done with more intelligent apis But if you take everything into account, you can also develop a really good native app. This is not reality.

piokoch 5y ago

"shifting of images" So much truth, not once I was trying to click on some image that had link underneath, and it suddenly moved to some other place and I ended clicking something different.

tannhaeuser 5y ago

A truly intolerable thing about SPAs and JavaScript is that regular HTTP caching of images and fonts had to be limited because JS APIs can be and are used for fingerprinting, driving the whole web thing ad absurdum. Switching off JS/fingerprinting doesn't really help either since it'll just disproportionally benefit Google's stronghold on web analytics even more.

IX-103 5y ago
Fingerprinting is not just JS. Fingerprinting is possible just using CSS rules alone. The bigger issue, which seems to be what you are complaining about seems to be the gaping hole in privacy provided by 3rd party storage/resources. That is not a particular problem with SPAs, and can even be exploited without JavaScript. I'm not sure where you're coming from regarding Google and web analytics. When 3rd party storage is gone (or partitioned) it sounds like everyone would be on the same page in terms of what data they can collect.