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I guarantee you that most people back then would've been hunting, farming, building huts or rearing children. There is no model of the past where this level of

I guarantee you that most people back then would've been hunting, farming, building huts or rearing children. There is no model of the past where this level of isolation was even maintainable. People simply depend on each other to live. All that changed is that we've outsourced that direct dependence with indirect dependencies, like supermarkets.

smorgusofborg 5y ago
Just before the crisis I was watching a documentary on a tribe of herdsmen that come together once a year to find mates.. They have probably been doing that longer than Rome has existed. The idea that the modern world is very much like our environment during our evolution is delusional. An effect of being joined to the western Europeans for colonized people was significant deaths from diseases that can only exist in abnormal densities of people.
- antihipocrat 5y ago
  You're now defending a position that is contrary to the ideas expressed in your original post. Which would be completely ok, except you never explained how your position has changed nor what it is you are now arguing against.
  - smorgusofborg 5y ago
    My position is AFAICT the same in the entire thread. There is nothing "obviously" wrong and harmful with a lifestyle because it looks different than a modern lifestyle (that is not the result of tuning for positive mental health, but a lot of game theory toward the opposite) and that not everyone leads even today. Tribe size averages don't mean every family everywhere was connected with people outside their immediate family more often than required to reproduce. Plenty of herders still spend most of their time in their atomic family in Turkik places, Africa, etc and have done so since before agriculture. Are they all obviously mentally ill because they don't go to supermarkets? (To me this is the same observation as that many people first experience schizophrenia at the stage when they are most likely going off to school, the school environment is a change and not obviously more defective for our mental health, those who have crisis might have unhealthy family relationships before hand, etc, etc.)

smorgusofborg 5y ago

Just before the crisis I was watching a documentary on a tribe of herdsmen that come together once a year to find mates.. They have probably been doing that longer than Rome has existed. The idea that the modern world is very much like our environment during our evolution is delusional. An effect of being joined to the western Europeans for colonized people was significant deaths from diseases that can only exist in abnormal densities of people.

antihipocrat 5y ago
You're now defending a position that is contrary to the ideas expressed in your original post. Which would be completely ok, except you never explained how your position has changed nor what it is you are now arguing against.
- smorgusofborg 5y ago
  My position is AFAICT the same in the entire thread. There is nothing "obviously" wrong and harmful with a lifestyle because it looks different than a modern lifestyle (that is not the result of tuning for positive mental health, but a lot of game theory toward the opposite) and that not everyone leads even today. Tribe size averages don't mean every family everywhere was connected with people outside their immediate family more often than required to reproduce. Plenty of herders still spend most of their time in their atomic family in Turkik places, Africa, etc and have done so since before agriculture. Are they all obviously mentally ill because they don't go to supermarkets? (To me this is the same observation as that many people first experience schizophrenia at the stage when they are most likely going off to school, the school environment is a change and not obviously more defective for our mental health, those who have crisis might have unhealthy family relationships before hand, etc, etc.)