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And Maricopa County, AZ should comply with the subpoenas issued by election auditors... unless they're hiding something. This isn't the way people with nothing

by jtdev 5y ago

And Maricopa County, AZ should comply with the subpoenas issued by election auditors... unless they're hiding something. This isn't the way people with nothing to hide respond to subpoenas: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/dominion-maricopa-county-refuse-to-comply-with-state-senate-subpoenas-in-arizona-audit/ar-AAMRgdp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/dominion-maricopa-co...

afavour 5y ago
> the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors responded to the subpoena with a letter stating they have already provided much of what has been asked of them in subpoenas filed at the beginning of this year and late last year. > They also stated that some of the materials that have been requested are in the custody of the recorder's office, which was not named in the subpoena, according to the Republic. > "Specifically, providing these routers puts sensitive, confidential data belonging to Maricopa County citizens - including Social Security numbers and protected health information - at risk," Thomas Liddy, civil division chief for the county attorney's office, wrote. None of this seems unreasonable to me. An aside, but I'd think a tech forum like HN would be interested in a more critical examination of the conspiracy theory around internet routers containing proof of electoral fraud. Every angle I've read on it sounds like utter nonsense. Let's not pretend it's anything other than a fishing expedition aimed at sowing doubt in voters minds.
- corpdrone2021 5y ago
  I've tried to go over this with my dad and uncles a few times, they're all IT professionals. The theory is essentially that the machines weren't properly secured, they cite some provision of AZ election law that I don't recall precisely which states that if the machines aren't air-gapped the election is invalid and must be rerun. They think the routers are the proof that the rules were broken and thus will force a revote. When pressed they never can really articulate a specific theory of fraud, just that the rules were broken and they're upset when the rules were broken and their guy lost.
  - slumdev 5y ago
    > some provision of AZ election law that I don't recall precisely which states that if the machines aren't air-gapped the election is invalid and must be rerun So, we don't need to follow the law? The law is merely advisory and doesn't require our adherence? Would you be this unaffected by violations of the law if your guy hadn't won?
    - lovecg 5y ago
      We do and sounds like we did. https://recorder.maricopa.gov/justthefacts/ https://recorder.maricopa.gov/justthefacts/ > This is false. Maricopa County uses an air-gapped system, meaning its tabulation equipment is never connected to the internet and is completely separated from the Maricopa County network. There are no routers connected to the system and there never have been. > Two separate federally certified Voting System Testing Laboratories independently confirmed that the system is not connected to the internet. In February 2021, they tested the equipment and found no evidence of internet connectivity. The firms also confirmed that there was not any malicious software or hardware installed on the tabulation equipment. Audit results: https://www.maricopa.gov/5681/Elections-Equipment-Audit#Results https://www.maricopa.gov/5681/Elections-Equipment-Audit#Resu... This was literally 1 minute of Googling by the way.
    - afavour 5y ago
      Can we cut it out with the "your guy" stuff? A baseless conspiracy theory is a baseless conspiracy theory no matter which political candidate you support. In this instance there is no evidence that any law has been broken. Requesting the routers is a fishing expedition based on zero evidence. The equipment has already been tested and proven to not be connected to the internet, if they turn over the routers then "stop the steal" activists will say the hacks are actually hidden in the ethernet cables, or something. This is not an investigation based on facts, it is an attempt to confuse and sow doubt. Having the router connected to the internet might be against the law, but refusing a request to turn over routers is not a violation of the law.
    - corpdrone2021 5y ago
      Do you honestly believe anyone is going to arrest the county board of supervisors? What do you believe will happen to remedy this? I'm all for enforcing the law, but I recognize that local authorities are essentially unaccountable to the rest of the nation. I assume that the residents of Maricopa county either support the outcome, are unable or unwilling to change it, or do not care about our civic processes.
- leereeves 5y ago
  How does providing a router put SSNs and health information at risk? Is the county transmitting that information without TLS? Then it's already at risk.
  - lovecg 5y ago
    Would you provide your physical home router to me for an “audit”? I promise not to do anything with it and you can be assured you can continue using it afterwards with no worries about your security. I imagine Maricopa county has no interest in throwing away all these routers and buying new ones. This is on top of the disruption of service that providing the physical routers will cause. The whole letter is worth a read by the way: https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/70435/Final-Signed-Letter-to-Senators https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/70435/Final-Sig...
    - jtdev 5y ago
      The language used by Mr. Sellers is pure hyperbole and an attempt to dismiss due process in the name of "just trust us"...

by jtdev 5y ago

afavour 5y ago

> the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors responded to the subpoena with a letter stating they have already provided much of what has been asked of them in subpoenas filed at the beginning of this year and late last year. > They also stated that some of the materials that have been requested are in the custody of the recorder's office, which was not named in the subpoena, according to the Republic. > "Specifically, providing these routers puts sensitive, confidential data belonging to Maricopa County citizens - including Social Security numbers and protected health information - at risk," Thomas Liddy, civil division chief for the county attorney's office, wrote. None of this seems unreasonable to me. An aside, but I'd think a tech forum like HN would be interested in a more critical examination of the conspiracy theory around internet routers containing proof of electoral fraud. Every angle I've read on it sounds like utter nonsense. Let's not pretend it's anything other than a fishing expedition aimed at sowing doubt in voters minds.

corpdrone2021 5y ago
I've tried to go over this with my dad and uncles a few times, they're all IT professionals. The theory is essentially that the machines weren't properly secured, they cite some provision of AZ election law that I don't recall precisely which states that if the machines aren't air-gapped the election is invalid and must be rerun. They think the routers are the proof that the rules were broken and thus will force a revote. When pressed they never can really articulate a specific theory of fraud, just that the rules were broken and they're upset when the rules were broken and their guy lost.
- slumdev 5y ago
  > some provision of AZ election law that I don't recall precisely which states that if the machines aren't air-gapped the election is invalid and must be rerun So, we don't need to follow the law? The law is merely advisory and doesn't require our adherence? Would you be this unaffected by violations of the law if your guy hadn't won?
  - lovecg 5y ago
    We do and sounds like we did. https://recorder.maricopa.gov/justthefacts/ https://recorder.maricopa.gov/justthefacts/ > This is false. Maricopa County uses an air-gapped system, meaning its tabulation equipment is never connected to the internet and is completely separated from the Maricopa County network. There are no routers connected to the system and there never have been. > Two separate federally certified Voting System Testing Laboratories independently confirmed that the system is not connected to the internet. In February 2021, they tested the equipment and found no evidence of internet connectivity. The firms also confirmed that there was not any malicious software or hardware installed on the tabulation equipment. Audit results: https://www.maricopa.gov/5681/Elections-Equipment-Audit#Results https://www.maricopa.gov/5681/Elections-Equipment-Audit#Resu... This was literally 1 minute of Googling by the way.
  - afavour 5y ago
    Can we cut it out with the "your guy" stuff? A baseless conspiracy theory is a baseless conspiracy theory no matter which political candidate you support. In this instance there is no evidence that any law has been broken. Requesting the routers is a fishing expedition based on zero evidence. The equipment has already been tested and proven to not be connected to the internet, if they turn over the routers then "stop the steal" activists will say the hacks are actually hidden in the ethernet cables, or something. This is not an investigation based on facts, it is an attempt to confuse and sow doubt. Having the router connected to the internet might be against the law, but refusing a request to turn over routers is not a violation of the law.
  - corpdrone2021 5y ago
    Do you honestly believe anyone is going to arrest the county board of supervisors? What do you believe will happen to remedy this? I'm all for enforcing the law, but I recognize that local authorities are essentially unaccountable to the rest of the nation. I assume that the residents of Maricopa county either support the outcome, are unable or unwilling to change it, or do not care about our civic processes.
leereeves 5y ago
How does providing a router put SSNs and health information at risk? Is the county transmitting that information without TLS? Then it's already at risk.
- lovecg 5y ago
  Would you provide your physical home router to me for an “audit”? I promise not to do anything with it and you can be assured you can continue using it afterwards with no worries about your security. I imagine Maricopa county has no interest in throwing away all these routers and buying new ones. This is on top of the disruption of service that providing the physical routers will cause. The whole letter is worth a read by the way: https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/70435/Final-Signed-Letter-to-Senators https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/70435/Final-Sig...
  - jtdev 5y ago
    The language used by Mr. Sellers is pure hyperbole and an attempt to dismiss due process in the name of "just trust us"...