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Turkey does not have the expertise nor money to build this. Drones, they were merely assembling them from suppliers, e.g. https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/suspe

Turkey does not have the expertise nor money to build this. Drones, they were merely assembling them from suppliers, e.g. https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/suspending-drone-supply-to-turkey-reeks-of-canadian-hypocrisy-40325 https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/suspending-drone-supply-to-t... or https://hetq.am/en/article/126227 https://hetq.am/en/article/126227 I doubt that Turkey won three wars with drones, as mentioned in the thread here. But they helped at least win one battle (Azerbaijan). Turkey is of tremendous geo-strategical importance but lacks technology, oil/gas and money. - Big importer of Energy - Huge trade balance deficit - Currency in free-fall Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s image and Turkey’s economy are both taking a battering https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/07/08/recep-tayyip-erdogans-image-and-turkeys-economy-are-both-taking-a-battering https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/07/08/recep-tayyip-erd... I think Erdo should focus on other things than trying to rebuild the Ottoman Empire.

aaaxyz 5y ago
You could argue that 2 of these wars (as well as the standoffs in the Mediterranean with the Greek navy) are aiming to remediate the oil/gas problem.
mrtksn 5y ago
Oh that's "Apple doesn't do anything, even the screens are from Samsung" argument. I'm not going to drill on that but I think you are underestimating Turkey's capabilities. Erdogan is just one dictator that is in free fall just like the economy he created. He probably wouldn't be around as a politician in few years. Despite its troubles, Turkey is still a very rich and capable country. It does have an established manufacturing industry with expertise in many areas including aviation. Thanks to the rise of anti-immigration sentiment and xenophobia in the west, Turkey's talent pool is not draining as fast as it could have. Because of the lira going down to the drain, an Engineer in Turkey costs $800 to $3000 a month, depending on the seniority. Housing, food etc everything is also cheeper. Turkey's GINI coefficient is horrible, which means the country does actually has capital concentration. The nationalistic sentiment and culturally obedient population makes it much more sustainable to spend money on military projects. What Turkey lacks is advanced electronics but they are working on it. For example, the Canadian IR camera sensor that they no longer want to sell is to be replaced with indigenous one. Unfortunately, that one will be heavier and larger which would probably affect other aspects of the drones in question - like range and speed, probably.
- baybal2 5y ago
  > What Turkey lacks is advanced electronics but they are working on it. For example, the Canadian IR camera sensor that they no longer want to sell is to be replaced with indigenous one. Unfortunately, that one will be heavier and larger which would probably affect other aspects of the drones in question - like range and speed, probably. The point that Turkey doesn't have the technological capability sounds silly. Just look at number, Turkey is one of the biggest engineering powers out there, in rank with Koreans, and Japanese, and sometimes ahead of them when it comes to conventional heavy industry, and civil engineering. Turkey has tons of engineers, and engineering companies. That's the hard fact.
- newdude116 5y ago
  Please enlighten us, what parts of the drone are Turkish https://tekdeeps.com/armenia-fixes-the-turkish-uavs-bayraktar-tb2-photo/ https://tekdeeps.com/armenia-fixes-the-turkish-uavs-bayrakta... "Thanks to the rise of anti-immigration sentiment and xenophobia in the west" How about Turkish Xeonophobia? https://www.arabnews.com/node/1623171/middle-east https://www.arabnews.com/node/1623171/middle-east "Because of the lira going down to the drain" Poverty in Turkey https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06/official-data-lays-bare-deepening-poverty-turkey#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20poverty%20threshold,material%20deprivation%20has%20similarly%20increased https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06/official-data-l.... Erdo had a run during his first two terms. Economic growth was tremendous. But he should have retired then. Trying to build a new ottoman empire, rejecting democracy and changing what made Turkey more successful than most Arabic countries - the strict separation of religion and state -, will end badly.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    >Please enlighten us, what parts of the drone are Turkish The design is Turkish, the software is Turkish and some parts are Turkish others are from suppliers from all over the world. If that's not clear enough, ask yourself what makes iPhone an American product. It's the IP, Suppliers can change. That's why other countries are buying it from Turkey instead of ordering the parts from Alibaba and assemble. Why do you think that Armenians couldn't assemble their own "Turkish UAV" and use them against Azerbaijan? Didn't have screwdrivers to put together the parts? About the whatabautism part of your question, Turks are indeed quite xenophobic. Yet, hosting so many refugees that makes about %5 to %10 of the country's population. If the USA hosted that many refugees, their number would have been from 16 million to 32 million. Turks are not happy about that, the latest polls show that about %80 of the Turks want the refugees gone. Turks are not any less xenophobic that the Western nations, happy about that? The US elected Trump to get rid of the immigrants, EU got to the brink of collapse at the first million of Syrian. Turks might not be less xenophobic from the Westerners but they are resilient enough to take one for the team. The poverty in Turkey has become rampant, the country does have a large number of poor people and rich people, the middle class with similar buying power to the western middle class has evaporated. So what? That's why Erdogan would be gone in a year or two. Erdogan is not taking the drones with him.
petre 5y ago
I wouldn't underestimate or dismiss them. This is what happened with China, they were making ball point pens in the 80s and then after 40 years they sent a rover to Mars and threaten their neighbours in the South China Sea. Turkey is involved in wars all over North Africa and the Caucaz region. They're paying for mercenaries fighting in Libya and are suplying one side with drones. They supplied Azerbaidjan with drones and mercenaries.
- newdude116 5y ago
  Turkey is a Muslim country. The strict separation of religion and state was introduced by Ataturk and is reversed by Erdogan. While being a Muslim country is not necessary something bad, it seems to go not well along with an industrialized open society: http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/monsters-ii/ http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/monsters-ii/ I just came back from a short visit to Turkey and some strange, random impressions gave me big doubts.
  - petre 5y ago
    Don't equate Turks to Arabs. These guys do have a Turkish Hyundai, Ottocar and their country is quite well industrialized. Also, China is industrialized but not open, which is no reason to dismiss it, as it's currently exerting its influence in SE Asia and also worldwide to some degree. One of Erdogan's ambitions seems to be a new Ottoman Empire, something which does not fare well with Greece, the Balkans, most of Noth Africa and some countries in the Caucaz Region. That's also one of the reason Turkish attempts to join the EU will be met with opposition by Greece, Balkan EU states, along with Romania, Hungary. Here's a map for reference: https://cdn.britannica.com/89/4789-050-B6176F52/Expansion-Ottoman-Empire.jpg https://cdn.britannica.com/89/4789-050-B6176F52/Expansion-Ot...
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Turkey does not have the expertise nor money to build this. Heck, its pretty much what the US didn't have the combination of expertise and money to carry out with the UCLASS project, whose requirements got signficantly relaxed into an unmanned tanker with minimal combat capability project (CBARS) and produced the Boeing MQ-25.

aaaxyz 5y ago

You could argue that 2 of these wars (as well as the standoffs in the Mediterranean with the Greek navy) are aiming to remediate the oil/gas problem.

mrtksn 5y ago

Oh that's "Apple doesn't do anything, even the screens are from Samsung" argument. I'm not going to drill on that but I think you are underestimating Turkey's capabilities. Erdogan is just one dictator that is in free fall just like the economy he created. He probably wouldn't be around as a politician in few years. Despite its troubles, Turkey is still a very rich and capable country. It does have an established manufacturing industry with expertise in many areas including aviation. Thanks to the rise of anti-immigration sentiment and xenophobia in the west, Turkey's talent pool is not draining as fast as it could have. Because of the lira going down to the drain, an Engineer in Turkey costs $800 to $3000 a month, depending on the seniority. Housing, food etc everything is also cheeper. Turkey's GINI coefficient is horrible, which means the country does actually has capital concentration. The nationalistic sentiment and culturally obedient population makes it much more sustainable to spend money on military projects. What Turkey lacks is advanced electronics but they are working on it. For example, the Canadian IR camera sensor that they no longer want to sell is to be replaced with indigenous one. Unfortunately, that one will be heavier and larger which would probably affect other aspects of the drones in question - like range and speed, probably.

baybal2 5y ago
> What Turkey lacks is advanced electronics but they are working on it. For example, the Canadian IR camera sensor that they no longer want to sell is to be replaced with indigenous one. Unfortunately, that one will be heavier and larger which would probably affect other aspects of the drones in question - like range and speed, probably. The point that Turkey doesn't have the technological capability sounds silly. Just look at number, Turkey is one of the biggest engineering powers out there, in rank with Koreans, and Japanese, and sometimes ahead of them when it comes to conventional heavy industry, and civil engineering. Turkey has tons of engineers, and engineering companies. That's the hard fact.
newdude116 5y ago
Please enlighten us, what parts of the drone are Turkish https://tekdeeps.com/armenia-fixes-the-turkish-uavs-bayraktar-tb2-photo/ https://tekdeeps.com/armenia-fixes-the-turkish-uavs-bayrakta... "Thanks to the rise of anti-immigration sentiment and xenophobia in the west" How about Turkish Xeonophobia? https://www.arabnews.com/node/1623171/middle-east https://www.arabnews.com/node/1623171/middle-east "Because of the lira going down to the drain" Poverty in Turkey https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06/official-data-lays-bare-deepening-poverty-turkey#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20poverty%20threshold,material%20deprivation%20has%20similarly%20increased https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06/official-data-l.... Erdo had a run during his first two terms. Economic growth was tremendous. But he should have retired then. Trying to build a new ottoman empire, rejecting democracy and changing what made Turkey more successful than most Arabic countries - the strict separation of religion and state -, will end badly.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  >Please enlighten us, what parts of the drone are Turkish The design is Turkish, the software is Turkish and some parts are Turkish others are from suppliers from all over the world. If that's not clear enough, ask yourself what makes iPhone an American product. It's the IP, Suppliers can change. That's why other countries are buying it from Turkey instead of ordering the parts from Alibaba and assemble. Why do you think that Armenians couldn't assemble their own "Turkish UAV" and use them against Azerbaijan? Didn't have screwdrivers to put together the parts? About the whatabautism part of your question, Turks are indeed quite xenophobic. Yet, hosting so many refugees that makes about %5 to %10 of the country's population. If the USA hosted that many refugees, their number would have been from 16 million to 32 million. Turks are not happy about that, the latest polls show that about %80 of the Turks want the refugees gone. Turks are not any less xenophobic that the Western nations, happy about that? The US elected Trump to get rid of the immigrants, EU got to the brink of collapse at the first million of Syrian. Turks might not be less xenophobic from the Westerners but they are resilient enough to take one for the team. The poverty in Turkey has become rampant, the country does have a large number of poor people and rich people, the middle class with similar buying power to the western middle class has evaporated. So what? That's why Erdogan would be gone in a year or two. Erdogan is not taking the drones with him.

petre 5y ago

I wouldn't underestimate or dismiss them. This is what happened with China, they were making ball point pens in the 80s and then after 40 years they sent a rover to Mars and threaten their neighbours in the South China Sea. Turkey is involved in wars all over North Africa and the Caucaz region. They're paying for mercenaries fighting in Libya and are suplying one side with drones. They supplied Azerbaidjan with drones and mercenaries.

newdude116 5y ago
Turkey is a Muslim country. The strict separation of religion and state was introduced by Ataturk and is reversed by Erdogan. While being a Muslim country is not necessary something bad, it seems to go not well along with an industrialized open society: http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/monsters-ii/ http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/monsters-ii/ I just came back from a short visit to Turkey and some strange, random impressions gave me big doubts.
- petre 5y ago
  Don't equate Turks to Arabs. These guys do have a Turkish Hyundai, Ottocar and their country is quite well industrialized. Also, China is industrialized but not open, which is no reason to dismiss it, as it's currently exerting its influence in SE Asia and also worldwide to some degree. One of Erdogan's ambitions seems to be a new Ottoman Empire, something which does not fare well with Greece, the Balkans, most of Noth Africa and some countries in the Caucaz Region. That's also one of the reason Turkish attempts to join the EU will be met with opposition by Greece, Balkan EU states, along with Romania, Hungary. Here's a map for reference: https://cdn.britannica.com/89/4789-050-B6176F52/Expansion-Ottoman-Empire.jpg https://cdn.britannica.com/89/4789-050-B6176F52/Expansion-Ot...

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Turkey does not have the expertise nor money to build this. Heck, its pretty much what the US didn't have the combination of expertise and money to carry out with the UCLASS project, whose requirements got signficantly relaxed into an unmanned tanker with minimal combat capability project (CBARS) and produced the Boeing MQ-25.