7 ms·

I'm not at all advocating Cisco's behavior (it's very unethical and likely criminal as well) but I think suggesting someone murder a Cisco exec over this is, um

I'm not at all advocating Cisco's behavior (it's very unethical and likely criminal as well) but I think suggesting someone murder a Cisco exec over this is, um, a tad harsh.

bluedanieru 15y ago
I don't know that it would be a Cisco exec, but someone has seriously tarnished the reputation of two nations, one of which is already on pretty shaky ground, and ruined a man's life. Honestly, only losing a year I think he got off light. And just to be clear, I wouldn't say this if I thought there was a reason to have any faith in the justice system of the US. I compare it to some local political boss in China getting the death penalty after pushing things a bit too far and embarrassing his superiors in the party such that they had to send him to his death in order to save face. Live by the sword and all that.
- diolpah 15y ago
  If the national reputations have been damaged, it is the fault of the nations in question, not that of the nameless executive. Nobody forced the prosecutorial abuses explicated in this article. Be assured, however, that the thin blue line will continue to protect them just as much as Cisco will protect its executives.
  - danudey 15y ago
    Well the issue came about because lawyers (who are implicitly trusted in the legal system) lied openly about the circumstances. Unfortunately this trust is necessary for the legal system to operate, and it seems as though some lawyers have decided to take advantage of that. I can only hope that the lawyers involved are disbarred for life, and (in the case of American lawyers operating in Canada), charged with a crime and prevented from entering the country again (without facing prosecution).
Daniel_Newby 15y ago
... suggesting someone murder a Cisco exec over this is, um, a tad harsh. No. A coalition of execs conducted a violent kidnapping in broad daylight to make a political statement. It would not be out of line to whack one of them in front of their family. Tit-for-tat ain't just for game theory papers. Illegality isn't much of an argument, since by corrupting the process of law they have placed themselves outside it. We can reasonably consider even more than that. The execs corrupted many levels of government, but were so inept that the government itself caught them at it. The Feds don't quite use Roman penalties for corruption (crucifixion), but they are harsh and unforgiving. Even a $100 bribe can get you sent to prison for years.
- Daniel_Newby 15y ago
  Why the downvotes? If you disagree with an element of fact, then say it. The simple fact is the Cisco conducted a Russian mob-style kidnapping, to send a political message to the victim and his family. It would easily have turned into a full on mob hit if the victim had put a hand in his pocket and it had been "misinterpreted". And how is Cisco's next victim to seek redress? Certainly not by crossing a border: they own customs and immigration. Certainly not by working with a foreign court: Cisco's armed agents travel freely anywhere and do as they please. Certainly not by making a complaint to the FBI: who will just turn the complaint over to prosecutors who are Cisco's tame lapdogs. This is not lost on their prospective victims. With cooperation off the table, they know the choice is to submit or strike first. It is a statistical certainty that one of their prospective victims will choose to strike. It is also a certainty that, given the opaque nature of Cisco's management, that the strike will be broadly targeted. This sort of game-theoretic logic is exactly why corporate disputes in Moscow are so often resolved by bombings. Cisco has sown the wind, and will reap the whirlwind if they do not clean up their act.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - antiterra 15y ago
    The simple fact is the Cisco conducted a Russian mob-style kidnapping Re-reading this, I'm now convinced you're trolling. Regardless of whatever inappropriate influence Cisco may have exerted on US authorities, it was the RCMP that arrested Adekeye, and it appears to have been done in a very polite manner.

I'm not at all advocating Cisco's behavior (it's very unethical and likely criminal as well) but I think suggesting someone murder a Cisco exec over this is, um, a tad harsh.

bluedanieru 15y ago

I don't know that it would be a Cisco exec, but someone has seriously tarnished the reputation of two nations, one of which is already on pretty shaky ground, and ruined a man's life. Honestly, only losing a year I think he got off light. And just to be clear, I wouldn't say this if I thought there was a reason to have any faith in the justice system of the US. I compare it to some local political boss in China getting the death penalty after pushing things a bit too far and embarrassing his superiors in the party such that they had to send him to his death in order to save face. Live by the sword and all that.

diolpah 15y ago
If the national reputations have been damaged, it is the fault of the nations in question, not that of the nameless executive. Nobody forced the prosecutorial abuses explicated in this article. Be assured, however, that the thin blue line will continue to protect them just as much as Cisco will protect its executives.
- danudey 15y ago
  Well the issue came about because lawyers (who are implicitly trusted in the legal system) lied openly about the circumstances. Unfortunately this trust is necessary for the legal system to operate, and it seems as though some lawyers have decided to take advantage of that. I can only hope that the lawyers involved are disbarred for life, and (in the case of American lawyers operating in Canada), charged with a crime and prevented from entering the country again (without facing prosecution).

Daniel_Newby 15y ago

... suggesting someone murder a Cisco exec over this is, um, a tad harsh. No. A coalition of execs conducted a violent kidnapping in broad daylight to make a political statement. It would not be out of line to whack one of them in front of their family. Tit-for-tat ain't just for game theory papers. Illegality isn't much of an argument, since by corrupting the process of law they have placed themselves outside it. We can reasonably consider even more than that. The execs corrupted many levels of government, but were so inept that the government itself caught them at it. The Feds don't quite use Roman penalties for corruption (crucifixion), but they are harsh and unforgiving. Even a $100 bribe can get you sent to prison for years.

Daniel_Newby 15y ago
Why the downvotes? If you disagree with an element of fact, then say it. The simple fact is the Cisco conducted a Russian mob-style kidnapping, to send a political message to the victim and his family. It would easily have turned into a full on mob hit if the victim had put a hand in his pocket and it had been "misinterpreted". And how is Cisco's next victim to seek redress? Certainly not by crossing a border: they own customs and immigration. Certainly not by working with a foreign court: Cisco's armed agents travel freely anywhere and do as they please. Certainly not by making a complaint to the FBI: who will just turn the complaint over to prosecutors who are Cisco's tame lapdogs. This is not lost on their prospective victims. With cooperation off the table, they know the choice is to submit or strike first. It is a statistical certainty that one of their prospective victims will choose to strike. It is also a certainty that, given the opaque nature of Cisco's management, that the strike will be broadly targeted. This sort of game-theoretic logic is exactly why corporate disputes in Moscow are so often resolved by bombings. Cisco has sown the wind, and will reap the whirlwind if they do not clean up their act.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- antiterra 15y ago
  The simple fact is the Cisco conducted a Russian mob-style kidnapping Re-reading this, I'm now convinced you're trolling. Regardless of whatever inappropriate influence Cisco may have exerted on US authorities, it was the RCMP that arrested Adekeye, and it appears to have been done in a very polite manner.