7 ms·

> Due to Chessbase’s repeated license violations, leading developers of Stockfish have terminated their GPL license with ChessBase permanently. What do they me

by nichch 5y ago

> Due to Chessbase’s repeated license violations, leading developers of Stockfish have terminated their GPL license with ChessBase permanently. What do they mean by this?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mehrdada 5y ago
From GNU GPL v3: 8. Termination. You may not propagate or modify a covered work except as expressly provided under this License. Any attempt otherwise to propagate or modify it is void, and will automatically terminate your rights under this License (including any patent licenses granted under the third paragraph of section 11). However, if you cease all violation of this License, then your license from a particular copyright holder is reinstated (a) provisionally, unless and until the copyright holder explicitly and finally terminates your license, and (b) permanently, if the copyright holder fails to notify you of the violation by some reasonable means prior to 60 days after the cessation. Moreover, your license from a particular copyright holder is reinstated permanently if the copyright holder notifies you of the violation by some reasonable means, this is the first time you have received notice of violation of this License (for any work) from that copyright holder, and you cure the violation prior to 30 days after your receipt of the notice. Termination of your rights under this section does not terminate the licenses of parties who have received copies or rights from you under this License. If your rights have been terminated and not permanently reinstated, you do not qualify to receive new licenses for the same material under section 10.
- kragen 5y ago
  GPLv2 has the termination provision but doesn't have the automatic-reinstatement provisions.
  - dralley 5y ago
    The GPL Cooperation Committment is basically an addendum to GPLv2 licenses that adds this clause. https://gplcc.github.io/gplcc/ https://gplcc.github.io/gplcc/
porphyra 5y ago
GPL allows you to use and distribute open-source code as long as you follow certain conditions like open sourcing derivatives under the GPL. Since Chessbase has not done that, Stockfish devs are no longer allowing Chessbase to use their code.
InvaderFizz 5y ago
Absent a license, ChessBase has no right to distribute any of the Stockfish code. This simply reverts the code to copyrighted content, much like a book.
- dmurray 5y ago
  I think they've revoked even Chessbase's license to use the code. So, not like a book, where if you have the physical copy you can generally read it, but more like a pirated copy of Windows or Oracle, where you owe license fees per user, per core, per day.
  - gpm 5y ago
    I'm not sure if it's settled law on whether or not you need to license to use code...
    - dboreham 5y ago
      I don't think it quite works that way: the license is really just an agreement between the user and the rights holder that they will not sue for infringement. So use without license really means "you may expect to be sued". The outcome of that suit would determine whether or not you "need to license to use code". I'm guessing there have been many cases where the copyright owners for some code sued someone for using it and won.
      - gpm 5y ago
        For distributing it, making copies of it, and violating contacts, definitely. For using a program already on a computer with no click through contract that you agree to to run it (or other contractual obligation), I'm not aware of any cases. That they can sue is a non statement, you can sue for anything, but I don't believe it is obviously (or even likely) copyright infringement...
        TeMPOraL 5y ago
Y_Y 5y ago
I suppose they were providing the stockfish software to Chessbase (and everyone else) under the GPL, but now they won't do that any more. I don't think that prevents somebody sympathetic (if such a person exists) from re-distributing it to Chessbase though.
- FartyMcFarter 5y ago
  > I don't think that prevents somebody sympathetic (if such a person exists) from re-distributing it to Chessbase though. Would this be legal?
  - greenshackle2 5y ago
    No. Stockfish owns the copyright to their code. You can't copy stockfish code without a license from stockfish. There's no provision in the GPL for some third party to re-grant a GPL license to someone else after their license was terminated.
  - gnud 5y ago
    Don't think it's a problem to give them the code, as long as your own license isn't terminated. But it would be a breach of copyright for Chessbase to distribute or modify the code, after their license has been terminated.
- Scarblac 5y ago
  It doesn't stop another person redistributing -- but then Chessbase still has no license for the copy they received. It doesn't help them.
mdoms 5y ago
It means they are in further violation of a license they already disregarded.
vmception 5y ago
So everyone can use it but can be individually revoked? Seems inefficient, but I understand if thats their only remedy, as provided by their own license
phendrenad2 5y ago
As seen in the section a sibling comment posted, the GPL terminates itself during certain conditions. So, they're either confused or trying to play lawyer a bit too hard. (IANAL)

by nichch 5y ago

> Due to Chessbase’s repeated license violations, leading developers of Stockfish have terminated their GPL license with ChessBase permanently. What do they mean by this?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mehrdada 5y ago

From GNU GPL v3: 8. Termination. You may not propagate or modify a covered work except as expressly provided under this License. Any attempt otherwise to propagate or modify it is void, and will automatically terminate your rights under this License (including any patent licenses granted under the third paragraph of section 11). However, if you cease all violation of this License, then your license from a particular copyright holder is reinstated (a) provisionally, unless and until the copyright holder explicitly and finally terminates your license, and (b) permanently, if the copyright holder fails to notify you of the violation by some reasonable means prior to 60 days after the cessation. Moreover, your license from a particular copyright holder is reinstated permanently if the copyright holder notifies you of the violation by some reasonable means, this is the first time you have received notice of violation of this License (for any work) from that copyright holder, and you cure the violation prior to 30 days after your receipt of the notice. Termination of your rights under this section does not terminate the licenses of parties who have received copies or rights from you under this License. If your rights have been terminated and not permanently reinstated, you do not qualify to receive new licenses for the same material under section 10.

kragen 5y ago
GPLv2 has the termination provision but doesn't have the automatic-reinstatement provisions.
- dralley 5y ago
  The GPL Cooperation Committment is basically an addendum to GPLv2 licenses that adds this clause. https://gplcc.github.io/gplcc/ https://gplcc.github.io/gplcc/

porphyra 5y ago

GPL allows you to use and distribute open-source code as long as you follow certain conditions like open sourcing derivatives under the GPL. Since Chessbase has not done that, Stockfish devs are no longer allowing Chessbase to use their code.

InvaderFizz 5y ago

Absent a license, ChessBase has no right to distribute any of the Stockfish code. This simply reverts the code to copyrighted content, much like a book.

dmurray 5y ago
I think they've revoked even Chessbase's license to use the code. So, not like a book, where if you have the physical copy you can generally read it, but more like a pirated copy of Windows or Oracle, where you owe license fees per user, per core, per day.
- gpm 5y ago
  I'm not sure if it's settled law on whether or not you need to license to use code...
  - dboreham 5y ago
    I don't think it quite works that way: the license is really just an agreement between the user and the rights holder that they will not sue for infringement. So use without license really means "you may expect to be sued". The outcome of that suit would determine whether or not you "need to license to use code". I'm guessing there have been many cases where the copyright owners for some code sued someone for using it and won.
    - gpm 5y ago
      For distributing it, making copies of it, and violating contacts, definitely. For using a program already on a computer with no click through contract that you agree to to run it (or other contractual obligation), I'm not aware of any cases. That they can sue is a non statement, you can sue for anything, but I don't believe it is obviously (or even likely) copyright infringement...
      - TeMPOraL 5y ago

Y_Y 5y ago

I suppose they were providing the stockfish software to Chessbase (and everyone else) under the GPL, but now they won't do that any more. I don't think that prevents somebody sympathetic (if such a person exists) from re-distributing it to Chessbase though.

FartyMcFarter 5y ago
> I don't think that prevents somebody sympathetic (if such a person exists) from re-distributing it to Chessbase though. Would this be legal?
- greenshackle2 5y ago
  No. Stockfish owns the copyright to their code. You can't copy stockfish code without a license from stockfish. There's no provision in the GPL for some third party to re-grant a GPL license to someone else after their license was terminated.
- gnud 5y ago
  Don't think it's a problem to give them the code, as long as your own license isn't terminated. But it would be a breach of copyright for Chessbase to distribute or modify the code, after their license has been terminated.
Scarblac 5y ago
It doesn't stop another person redistributing -- but then Chessbase still has no license for the copy they received. It doesn't help them.

mdoms 5y ago

It means they are in further violation of a license they already disregarded.

vmception 5y ago

So everyone can use it but can be individually revoked? Seems inefficient, but I understand if thats their only remedy, as provided by their own license

phendrenad2 5y ago

As seen in the section a sibling comment posted, the GPL terminates itself during certain conditions. So, they're either confused or trying to play lawyer a bit too hard. (IANAL)