6 ms·

Homosexuality is, by its very definition, same-sex attraction, not same-gender attraction. Aside from Reddit's double standard when it comes to subreddit bans,

Homosexuality is, by its very definition, same-sex attraction, not same-gender attraction. Aside from Reddit's double standard when it comes to subreddit bans, the fact that some people wanting to discuss their attraction to a particular sex is considered 'transphobic', is the wider problem here. It's not right that actual lesbians are getting harangued and then banned for not being interested in 'girldick' or whatever nonsense. > Nice dog whistle. Not really, just biological reality. People can't actually change their sex (only their gender expression), so 'male lesbian' is a statement of self-contradiction.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
Why are you bringing your personal vendettas onto another platform with a new account? I’m genuinely confused and I’m unsure what you hope to achieve in contributing in this manner. I’m sympathetic that you’re passionate about this subject but I don’t understand the benefit to the rest of the HN community.
jacoblambda 5y ago
> Not really, just biological reality. People can't actually change their sex (only their gender expression), so 'male lesbian' is a statement of self-contradiction. This is where you are mistaken. You can change your sex with a sex reassignment surgery. While gender is identity based, sex is defined via the phenotypes (physical characteristics). If you make the alterations necessary to match the physical characteristics of a certain sex, you become that sex for all intents and purposes. You may have different chromosomes than what is standard for that sex but by no means does that mean you aren't that sex. There are plenty of women who are born female, grow up female, present female, and identify as female who find out down the line that they have a Y chromosome. The same goes the other way with men who discover they have 2 X chromosomes. I mean hell while not the exact same circumstance, something like 1 in 2500 males are discovered to have a karyotype of 47,XXY with the actual predicted prevalence (due to low rates of identification) being closer to 1 in 1000 or 1 in 500. The previously mentioned circumstances are of course less common than this (closer to 1 in 20000 or 1 in 80000) but in the context of the global population that is still a significant number. My point being that sex is a lot fuzzier than most people realise and the only viable way of defining it is via phenotypes, which can of course be changed with medications and surgery. Defining by karyotype causes the entire definition system to break down because while chromosomes are of course important in determining your sex, they ultimately don't define it and there are so many other biological factors that play into you ending up whatever sex you are. And this isn't a "feel good" inclusive answer, this is just the scientific/medical reality because karyotypic/genetic sex just isn't a useful definition compared to phentotypic/physical sex. --- TLDR: It's not biological reality. Biological reality is that your sex is defined by your physical characteristics and while your chromosomes play a part in deciding which characteristics you develop, they don't provide a clean or consistent determination. If you sufficiently adapt your physical characteristics, for all intents and purposes both medically and otherwise, you are the sex your characteristics match.
- throwaway675309 5y ago
  "You become that sex for all intents and purposes"... i'd argue that you are perceived as that sex for all intents and purposes. Having SRS you still lack the ability to carry a baby in terms of impregnation for MTF, which most biological women are automatically capable of unless they have some extraneous condition/syndrome/etc. In addition I often wonder how the cocktail of female hormones including estrogen (versus mostly testosterone in biological males) play a part in neurological development and influence as a prepubescent.
  - jacoblambda 5y ago
    > unless they have some extraneous condition/syndrome/etc. How is this any different than SRS? You can call it a condition or whatever but it results in the exact same state. > In addition I often wonder how the cocktail of female hormones including estrogen (versus mostly testosterone in biological males) play a part in neurological development and influence as a prepubescent. It does play a significant part however it plays an even bigger part in the actual operation of the brain itself. So people who transition find themselves much closer neurologically to the sex with which they are hormonally equivalent to than their original sex. Now take in the consideration of trans individuals who attempt to transition during or before puberty. Is there a difference now? The lasting effects (of which none actually disqualify you from the sex you transition to) are lesser so it should be even harder to differentiate now. The point being, a MTF individual with SRS and HRT is of the female sex and vice versa for FTM individuals. They may be their sex with additional caveats or medical considerations but they are that sex. If we want to be scientific about it there is fundamentally no difference between a transitioned individual and any number of individuals of that sex who have some disorder or circumstance that gives them the identical physical characteristics.
- slothtrop 5y ago
  > You can change your sex with a sex reassignment surgery. You can surgically change genitals and pump hormones, the gametes don't change, nor chromosomes. > you are the sex your characteristics match. You're conflating gender and sex. Even for medical reasons alone, biological sex is an important consideration. We can show our appearance any way we like.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago

Why are you bringing your personal vendettas onto another platform with a new account? I’m genuinely confused and I’m unsure what you hope to achieve in contributing in this manner. I’m sympathetic that you’re passionate about this subject but I don’t understand the benefit to the rest of the HN community.

jacoblambda 5y ago

> Not really, just biological reality. People can't actually change their sex (only their gender expression), so 'male lesbian' is a statement of self-contradiction. This is where you are mistaken. You can change your sex with a sex reassignment surgery. While gender is identity based, sex is defined via the phenotypes (physical characteristics). If you make the alterations necessary to match the physical characteristics of a certain sex, you become that sex for all intents and purposes. You may have different chromosomes than what is standard for that sex but by no means does that mean you aren't that sex. There are plenty of women who are born female, grow up female, present female, and identify as female who find out down the line that they have a Y chromosome. The same goes the other way with men who discover they have 2 X chromosomes. I mean hell while not the exact same circumstance, something like 1 in 2500 males are discovered to have a karyotype of 47,XXY with the actual predicted prevalence (due to low rates of identification) being closer to 1 in 1000 or 1 in 500. The previously mentioned circumstances are of course less common than this (closer to 1 in 20000 or 1 in 80000) but in the context of the global population that is still a significant number. My point being that sex is a lot fuzzier than most people realise and the only viable way of defining it is via phenotypes, which can of course be changed with medications and surgery. Defining by karyotype causes the entire definition system to break down because while chromosomes are of course important in determining your sex, they ultimately don't define it and there are so many other biological factors that play into you ending up whatever sex you are. And this isn't a "feel good" inclusive answer, this is just the scientific/medical reality because karyotypic/genetic sex just isn't a useful definition compared to phentotypic/physical sex. --- TLDR: It's not biological reality. Biological reality is that your sex is defined by your physical characteristics and while your chromosomes play a part in deciding which characteristics you develop, they don't provide a clean or consistent determination. If you sufficiently adapt your physical characteristics, for all intents and purposes both medically and otherwise, you are the sex your characteristics match.

throwaway675309 5y ago
"You become that sex for all intents and purposes"... i'd argue that you are perceived as that sex for all intents and purposes. Having SRS you still lack the ability to carry a baby in terms of impregnation for MTF, which most biological women are automatically capable of unless they have some extraneous condition/syndrome/etc. In addition I often wonder how the cocktail of female hormones including estrogen (versus mostly testosterone in biological males) play a part in neurological development and influence as a prepubescent.
- jacoblambda 5y ago
  > unless they have some extraneous condition/syndrome/etc. How is this any different than SRS? You can call it a condition or whatever but it results in the exact same state. > In addition I often wonder how the cocktail of female hormones including estrogen (versus mostly testosterone in biological males) play a part in neurological development and influence as a prepubescent. It does play a significant part however it plays an even bigger part in the actual operation of the brain itself. So people who transition find themselves much closer neurologically to the sex with which they are hormonally equivalent to than their original sex. Now take in the consideration of trans individuals who attempt to transition during or before puberty. Is there a difference now? The lasting effects (of which none actually disqualify you from the sex you transition to) are lesser so it should be even harder to differentiate now. The point being, a MTF individual with SRS and HRT is of the female sex and vice versa for FTM individuals. They may be their sex with additional caveats or medical considerations but they are that sex. If we want to be scientific about it there is fundamentally no difference between a transitioned individual and any number of individuals of that sex who have some disorder or circumstance that gives them the identical physical characteristics.
slothtrop 5y ago
> You can change your sex with a sex reassignment surgery. You can surgically change genitals and pump hormones, the gametes don't change, nor chromosomes. > you are the sex your characteristics match. You're conflating gender and sex. Even for medical reasons alone, biological sex is an important consideration. We can show our appearance any way we like.