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Murdering infants is barbaric. It's impossible to corroborate now, but many reports at the time suggested they used impaled French infants for a battle standard

Murdering infants is barbaric. It's impossible to corroborate now, but many reports at the time suggested they used impaled French infants for a battle standard. I don't have a word strong enough to condemn that depravity. "That's what you get from revolutions by slaves, bro." comes across as extremely flippant. Slavery is wrong. Murdering innocent people is also wrong, bro.

markus_zhang 5y ago
Let's say when you do wrong X to someone, it's quite possible that they return the "favor" someday. I don't know what we are arguing here. Are they evil? For sure, but do you really expect them to be gentlemen revolutionaries who only kill those "should be killed"? Actually Europeans did the same in not so long ago, not as slaves, but as slavers (or some more fancy words), so people can go down much further IMHO.
mustafa_pasi 5y ago
Singling out acts of violence to try to say that both sides are equally evil or that one side is more moral because of that one act of evil is stupid. The greater picture is this: Haitians were slaves and had every right to fight against their oppression. The "white Europeans" belonged back home in France. They brought it on themselves. I always like to use this thought experiment: which of the two sides had power to change the situation? The Haitians couldn't help being slaves until they rebelled. The French could from the very start choose not to be slavers.
- concordDance 5y ago
  > The "white Europeans" belonged back home in France. Just like the black haitians belonged back home in West Africa? If you're going to deport people based on race at least be consistent.
  - the_af 5y ago
    Who brought the black Haitians to Haiti? Did they stay there voluntarily during white European rule? Details matter.
    - concordDance 5y ago
      I don't see how being brought to Haiti matters. Imagine some white settlers brought as children who have just become young adults. Do they need to go back to France?
      - mustafa_pasi 5y ago
        The point is not that they were in Haiti. The point is that they were engaging in slavery, and they had the freedom not to. I was not making any statements on settler colonialism which is a separate issue entirely. I was just saying, the French cannot claim be victims when they were the ones engaging in slavery.
      - the_af 5y ago
        > I don't see how being brought to Haiti matters It does matter if they were brought as slaves and against their will, and made by force to call Haiti their home. I hope you see the difference between this and the children the settlers brought with them. Comparing children to slavery is nonsense.
ceejayoz 5y ago
> many reports at the time suggested they used impaled French infants for a battle standard Sure, and the Soviets claimed the Katyn massacre was perpetrated by the Nazis. Consider sprinkling a few grains of salt on contemporary accounts by interested parties.

markus_zhang 5y ago

Let's say when you do wrong X to someone, it's quite possible that they return the "favor" someday. I don't know what we are arguing here. Are they evil? For sure, but do you really expect them to be gentlemen revolutionaries who only kill those "should be killed"? Actually Europeans did the same in not so long ago, not as slaves, but as slavers (or some more fancy words), so people can go down much further IMHO.

mustafa_pasi 5y ago

Singling out acts of violence to try to say that both sides are equally evil or that one side is more moral because of that one act of evil is stupid. The greater picture is this: Haitians were slaves and had every right to fight against their oppression. The "white Europeans" belonged back home in France. They brought it on themselves. I always like to use this thought experiment: which of the two sides had power to change the situation? The Haitians couldn't help being slaves until they rebelled. The French could from the very start choose not to be slavers.

concordDance 5y ago
> The "white Europeans" belonged back home in France. Just like the black haitians belonged back home in West Africa? If you're going to deport people based on race at least be consistent.
- the_af 5y ago
  Who brought the black Haitians to Haiti? Did they stay there voluntarily during white European rule? Details matter.
  - concordDance 5y ago
    I don't see how being brought to Haiti matters. Imagine some white settlers brought as children who have just become young adults. Do they need to go back to France?
    - mustafa_pasi 5y ago
      The point is not that they were in Haiti. The point is that they were engaging in slavery, and they had the freedom not to. I was not making any statements on settler colonialism which is a separate issue entirely. I was just saying, the French cannot claim be victims when they were the ones engaging in slavery.
    - the_af 5y ago
      > I don't see how being brought to Haiti matters It does matter if they were brought as slaves and against their will, and made by force to call Haiti their home. I hope you see the difference between this and the children the settlers brought with them. Comparing children to slavery is nonsense.

ceejayoz 5y ago

> many reports at the time suggested they used impaled French infants for a battle standard Sure, and the Soviets claimed the Katyn massacre was perpetrated by the Nazis. Consider sprinkling a few grains of salt on contemporary accounts by interested parties.