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Agreed with many other posters here - the execution was messy and definitely lacked the calm and collected attitude I'm used to seeing when looking at new stand

Agreed with many other posters here - the execution was messy and definitely lacked the calm and collected attitude I'm used to seeing when looking at new standards being discussed. I was also unimpressed with the tone of the issues/PRs opened. As an adult, one of the many lessons we learn is that if you want people to do something you want, you should be friendly, constructive, and positive - not calling out people on bad behaviors. I definitely don't want to encourage ignoring issues and letting people get away with things, but in this context a change in attitude would have brought much more success IMO Also I found it really weird that this has just bubbled up to the front page when the original PRs for this project were opened in 2019[1]. Why is this popping back up now? [1] https://github.com/gatsbyjs/gatsby/pull/19528 https://github.com/gatsbyjs/gatsby/pull/19528

Igelau 5y ago
Someone probably went looking for telemetry opt-out stuff since the recent discussion of Audacity's telemetry and weird policy changes. Somehow they found this. Unfortunately, the way this guy conducted himself was terrible. His tone and behavior in the issues and insistence that it's a standard just because he made a webpage were really off-putting. I can see why no one was champing at the bit to endorse this.
- sneak 5y ago
  Unfortunately, opt-outs are purely perfunctory, as these kinds of developers would prefer they not exist at all. I now believe there was little/no hope of getting this sort of thing adopted in any case. They don't want to make it easier to opt out; the opt out only exists to deflect blame.
sneak 5y ago
> As an adult, one of the many lessons we learn is that if you want people to do something you want, you should be friendly, constructive, and positive - not calling out people on bad behaviors. The majority of "getting someone else to do something" in our society is done with negative "coercion" (for lack of a better term) than positive. Most people go to work only because a policeman will come to their house and make them homeless at gunpoint if they don't. The percentage used to be even higher, but excommunication doesn't carry the sting it once did. Ultimately, the end result of all legislation and regulation of industry is the implied threat of negative consequences, up to and including state-sanctioned violence, for people who violate laws. Calling out bad behaviors is a common and traditional technique for getting new laws passed. Shame and bad PR is a powerful tool. Last November I shamed Apple into dropping unencrypted OCSP. Perhaps one day I can shame developers into not spying on their users without consent. Fact: the bad PR of shipping nonconsensual spyware is the only reason there is an opt-out lever at all. If we can amplify that, we can make it being enabled a default.

Igelau 5y ago

Someone probably went looking for telemetry opt-out stuff since the recent discussion of Audacity's telemetry and weird policy changes. Somehow they found this. Unfortunately, the way this guy conducted himself was terrible. His tone and behavior in the issues and insistence that it's a standard just because he made a webpage were really off-putting. I can see why no one was champing at the bit to endorse this.

sneak 5y ago
Unfortunately, opt-outs are purely perfunctory, as these kinds of developers would prefer they not exist at all. I now believe there was little/no hope of getting this sort of thing adopted in any case. They don't want to make it easier to opt out; the opt out only exists to deflect blame.

sneak 5y ago

> As an adult, one of the many lessons we learn is that if you want people to do something you want, you should be friendly, constructive, and positive - not calling out people on bad behaviors. The majority of "getting someone else to do something" in our society is done with negative "coercion" (for lack of a better term) than positive. Most people go to work only because a policeman will come to their house and make them homeless at gunpoint if they don't. The percentage used to be even higher, but excommunication doesn't carry the sting it once did. Ultimately, the end result of all legislation and regulation of industry is the implied threat of negative consequences, up to and including state-sanctioned violence, for people who violate laws. Calling out bad behaviors is a common and traditional technique for getting new laws passed. Shame and bad PR is a powerful tool. Last November I shamed Apple into dropping unencrypted OCSP. Perhaps one day I can shame developers into not spying on their users without consent. Fact: the bad PR of shipping nonconsensual spyware is the only reason there is an opt-out lever at all. If we can amplify that, we can make it being enabled a default.