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What's not to get? https://i.imgur.com/8xlOIW9.png https://i.imgur.com/8xlOIW9.png The whole point of defunding the police is to get the funding back to where

What's not to get? https://i.imgur.com/8xlOIW9.png https://i.imgur.com/8xlOIW9.png The whole point of defunding the police is to get the funding back to where it belongs. https://citymonitor.ai/government/the-reality-of-us-city-budgets-police-funding-eclipses-most-other-agencies https://citymonitor.ai/government/the-reality-of-us-city-bud... - The reality of US city budgets: Police funding eclipses most other agencies’

Justin_K 5y ago
There has already been extensive spending in these areas and what do we have to show for it? EDIT: While there's many factors that drive crime, crime was lower before the defund movements.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Does this logic apply to policing, too? > crime was lower before the defund movements Remind me, did anything else happen in 2020 that might have had an impact on crime?
  - decremental 5y ago
    Good point. The rioting encouraged by politicians and the media happened in 2020.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Anything else happen that year?
      - slipframe 5y ago
        Instead of being passive aggressive with this psuedo-scoratic bullshit, why don't you just say outright what you mean? You're talking about covid. A global pandemic is a shitty excuse for these hyper-local phenomena. It's not covid; it's the voting public of San Francisco (and two or three other west coast cities) and the disastrous politicians they elect.
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        The crime spike @Justin_K alluded to was national, not hyper-local. https://www.vox.com/22344713/murder-violent-crime-spike-surge-2020-covid-19-coronavirus https://www.vox.com/22344713/murder-violent-crime-spike-surg...
        slipframe 5y ago
        Nice try, but it's not murders and violent crimes that this discussion is about. Murders are not the crimes that 70% of San Franciscans are getting upset about. This degree of neighborhood destroying homelessness, rioting, and organized shoplifting at this scale are local phenomena, not national. These are the crimes that personally impact almost everybody besides the exceptionally privileged in cities like San Francisco and Seattle (were, across the street from me visible through my living-room window, a homeless camp has burned down twice in the past two months. I've lived here for ten year, but enough is enough. I'm getting the hell out of this city, and I'm far from the only one who's fed up with it. But keep on gaslighting, jackass.)
- techrat 5y ago
  https://citymonitor.ai/government/the-reality-of-us-city-budgets-police-funding-eclipses-most-other-agencies https://citymonitor.ai/government/the-reality-of-us-city-bud... Compare with: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-kentucky-police-social-workers https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-k...
khazhoux 5y ago
That cartoon unintentionally proves the point of those who oppose Defund: The author either intentionally or accidentally discards the stones marked "Theft", "Gang Violence", and "Domestic Violence." Who should response to a gang shooting, a theft, or someone in the middle of beating up their spouse/partner, if not the police?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Those things are, to at least some extent, caused by the things the artist is advocating doing a better job of fixing. The whole point of the cartoon is that tackling the underlying causes of such issues might make them easier to fix.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway316943 5y ago
    I agree that addressing underlying causes would reduce those problems but it would take decades even if we went all in on fixing those things. What exactly do we do about them in the mean time?
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Well, that's why the slogan's not "defund the police immediately", I guess. That it'd take a while to make significant progress isn't a reason not to start.
      - throwaway316943 5y ago
        Many people seem to take it to mean that. It even seems like some are trying to implement it that way. Catchy slogans tend to result in shitty implementations.
        ceejayoz 5y ago
wyager 5y ago
A basehead is robbing the CVS again? Quick, send a social worker!
ipaddr 5y ago
Tax cuts so citizens can hire private security?
astrange 5y ago
These comics (and the ones suggesting "defunding police" will lead to school funding) are essentially a trick because 1. reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places 2. half those things are done under the police department 3. the other half are much more expensive than police funding. Affordable housing is a notable case of the last one, it's very very expensive to build in SF and nobody actually wants it. The reason people dislike "luxury housing" is that it actually exists, so they want "affordable housing" because they know it won't happen. When it actually shows up, they oppose it too. It does demonstrate that anything presented in cartoon form is probably false, because the people drawing cartoons are not specialists in whatever the topic is. Basically Gell-Mann Amnesia.
- techrat 5y ago
  > These comics (and the ones suggesting "defunding police" will lead to school funding) are essentially a trick because 1. reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places 2. half those things are done under the police department 3. the other half are much more expensive than police funding. Evidence does not support your claims. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-kentucky-police-social-workers https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-k... Social workers, in conjunction with police, have resulted in a drop of repeat calls and cost less than hiring another officer.
  - astrange 5y ago
    This is "half those things are done under the police department". Defunding the police department would prevent this. If you want to hire social workers, which is a good idea, say that instead.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      You should look in to the defund proposals, then, because that's what they're typically advocating; moving these responsibilities (and their funding) out of the police department. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police > "Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as social services, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and other community resources.
sumedh 5y ago
> The whole point of defunding the police is to get the funding back to where it belongs. Then Reform the Police would have been a better marketing slogan compared to Defund the police.

Justin_K 5y ago

There has already been extensive spending in these areas and what do we have to show for it? EDIT: While there's many factors that drive crime, crime was lower before the defund movements.

ceejayoz 5y ago
Does this logic apply to policing, too? > crime was lower before the defund movements Remind me, did anything else happen in 2020 that might have had an impact on crime?
- decremental 5y ago
  Good point. The rioting encouraged by politicians and the media happened in 2020.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Anything else happen that year?
    - slipframe 5y ago
      Instead of being passive aggressive with this psuedo-scoratic bullshit, why don't you just say outright what you mean? You're talking about covid. A global pandemic is a shitty excuse for these hyper-local phenomena. It's not covid; it's the voting public of San Francisco (and two or three other west coast cities) and the disastrous politicians they elect.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        The crime spike @Justin_K alluded to was national, not hyper-local. https://www.vox.com/22344713/murder-violent-crime-spike-surge-2020-covid-19-coronavirus https://www.vox.com/22344713/murder-violent-crime-spike-surg...
        slipframe 5y ago
        Nice try, but it's not murders and violent crimes that this discussion is about. Murders are not the crimes that 70% of San Franciscans are getting upset about. This degree of neighborhood destroying homelessness, rioting, and organized shoplifting at this scale are local phenomena, not national. These are the crimes that personally impact almost everybody besides the exceptionally privileged in cities like San Francisco and Seattle (were, across the street from me visible through my living-room window, a homeless camp has burned down twice in the past two months. I've lived here for ten year, but enough is enough. I'm getting the hell out of this city, and I'm far from the only one who's fed up with it. But keep on gaslighting, jackass.)
techrat 5y ago
https://citymonitor.ai/government/the-reality-of-us-city-budgets-police-funding-eclipses-most-other-agencies https://citymonitor.ai/government/the-reality-of-us-city-bud... Compare with: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-kentucky-police-social-workers https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-k...

khazhoux 5y ago

That cartoon unintentionally proves the point of those who oppose Defund: The author either intentionally or accidentally discards the stones marked "Theft", "Gang Violence", and "Domestic Violence." Who should response to a gang shooting, a theft, or someone in the middle of beating up their spouse/partner, if not the police?

ceejayoz 5y ago
Those things are, to at least some extent, caused by the things the artist is advocating doing a better job of fixing. The whole point of the cartoon is that tackling the underlying causes of such issues might make them easier to fix.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway316943 5y ago
  I agree that addressing underlying causes would reduce those problems but it would take decades even if we went all in on fixing those things. What exactly do we do about them in the mean time?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Well, that's why the slogan's not "defund the police immediately", I guess. That it'd take a while to make significant progress isn't a reason not to start.
    - throwaway316943 5y ago
      Many people seem to take it to mean that. It even seems like some are trying to implement it that way. Catchy slogans tend to result in shitty implementations.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago

wyager 5y ago

A basehead is robbing the CVS again? Quick, send a social worker!

ipaddr 5y ago

Tax cuts so citizens can hire private security?

astrange 5y ago

These comics (and the ones suggesting "defunding police" will lead to school funding) are essentially a trick because 1. reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places 2. half those things are done under the police department 3. the other half are much more expensive than police funding. Affordable housing is a notable case of the last one, it's very very expensive to build in SF and nobody actually wants it. The reason people dislike "luxury housing" is that it actually exists, so they want "affordable housing" because they know it won't happen. When it actually shows up, they oppose it too. It does demonstrate that anything presented in cartoon form is probably false, because the people drawing cartoons are not specialists in whatever the topic is. Basically Gell-Mann Amnesia.

techrat 5y ago
> These comics (and the ones suggesting "defunding police" will lead to school funding) are essentially a trick because 1. reducing police funding won't lead to money going to those other places 2. half those things are done under the police department 3. the other half are much more expensive than police funding. Evidence does not support your claims. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-kentucky-police-social-workers https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/19/alexandria-k... Social workers, in conjunction with police, have resulted in a drop of repeat calls and cost less than hiring another officer.
- astrange 5y ago
  This is "half those things are done under the police department". Defunding the police department would prevent this. If you want to hire social workers, which is a good idea, say that instead.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    You should look in to the defund proposals, then, because that's what they're typically advocating; moving these responsibilities (and their funding) out of the police department. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police > "Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as social services, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and other community resources.

sumedh 5y ago

> The whole point of defunding the police is to get the funding back to where it belongs. Then Reform the Police would have been a better marketing slogan compared to Defund the police.