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I was a nuclear power plant operator on a submarine during this period. Wanting another challenge (young & crazy ...), I applied for duty at McMurdo Station in

by MurMan 5y ago

I was a nuclear power plant operator on a submarine during this period. Wanting another challenge (young & crazy ...), I applied for duty at McMurdo Station in 1971. My request was not approved and I was told that the Navy had a shortage of qualified submarine nuc's. Sounds like the Navy had already decided to decommission it. I've always regretted not going to Antarctica, but this article makes me think that I dodged a bullet. This plant was a maintenance nightmare. Plus, operating a reactor with a mix of personnel sounds bad. We certainly had our personnel issues on subs, but at least all of us in Engineering had the shared experiences of nuclear power school, prototype training, and sub qualification.

TameAntelope 5y ago
That's amazing and specific experience, very cool! One thing I noticed at the top of the article was that they used the steam as a source of fresh water as well, did subs do this too, when you worked on them?
- MurMan 5y ago
  Yes. Subs use low-pressure steam to desalinate sea water. Having lots of fresh water for showers was a huge benefit of nuc boats over diesel boats.
  - Zenst 5y ago
    Handy, also for oxygen production. Did you ever have to light the candle?
    - MurMan 5y ago
      Oxygen generators use electricity (electrolysis), not steam. Thankfully, we never had to use oxygen candles. Candles are effective only in a small closed space. That would have been a serious emergency.
      - Zenst 5y ago
        Ah yes, was referring to the excess drinking water aspect knowing electrolysis upon sea water will produce chlorine due to the salt, which really would be an emergency in itself. Glad to hear you didn't have a situation to use one and does seem a very rare situation, but neat that there is a solid backup.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - qrybam 5y ago
      For anyone else wondering what “light the candle” means in this context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator
      - Zenst 5y ago
        If you want too see one in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ around 10:19 onwards shows the candle being put into action.
        jshmrsn 5y ago
        I knew exactly what video you were going to link :) I love when the internet feels small for a moment.
        stainforth 5y ago
        Every 2 hours in 2 parts of the ship? That seems like a lot of labor.
        Zenst 5y ago
        They alternate between the two sections, so they do one stack every 2 hours and you can see how much labour, 2 man less than 5 mins. Remember, this isn't how they run it all the time and it is the backup system. With that in mind, most backup plans for anything if not a like for like, are always more intensive. Compare writing a letter by hand too sending an email in effort and this, for me, this looks way easier. Worth noting that even in the vid, you have crew members of senior rank watching on as they have never seen it done before, which indicates how uncommon it's usage is.
- nielsbot 5y ago
  You might find this series from Smarter Every Day interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ I didn't find a bit about how they make drinking water, but here's an episode about how they regenerate their oxygen on a nuclear sub.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwawaybutwhy 5y ago
How many times did you get to talk with Rickover? And yes, thank you for your service.
- MurMan 5y ago
  Just once, briefly when he did an inspection of our boat in Guam. My last memory of him was standing next to the ladder as he left. His pants raised as his ankle reached my eye level exposing a leg that was smaller than my wrist. To me, this was a perfect example of Rickover: a giant in many respects, but small and petty in others.
- seanf 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover Fascinating read, sounds like Robert Moses of the Navy
cturner 5y ago
Interesting people come to hacker news. (I'd give another upvote for your username if I could.) What is the essential set of skills/foundation knowledge for a nuclear power plant operator of the sort that you get on a submarine? What do you think of the submarine systems that were designed for you to interact with? Context - I have been thinking recently about submarines and wondering how crew size could be reduced through automation. (I am aware that a lot of work went into this on the Independence class ships, but my working assumption is that this was let down by poor structuring of the design team, rather than that automation is a fundamentally bad idea) Did you have to manage boredom when you were on-shift but did not have much to do? Or is there plenty to do? Or are you allowed to study when there is not much in the way of active responsibilities?
- krisoft 5y ago
  > I have been thinking recently about submarines and wondering how crew size could be reduced through automation. I believe the Alfa class submarines went this exact route. According to Sutton it had a crew complement of 32: http://www.hisutton.com/Alfa_Class_Submarine.html http://www.hisutton.com/Alfa_Class_Submarine.html Much more modern plans along similar design thinking is the SHELF reactor. It is designed to operates in an underwater, sealed capsule that is monitored and controlled remotely. Source: https://aris.iaea.org/Publications/smr-status-sep-2012.pdf https://aris.iaea.org/Publications/smr-status-sep-2012.pdf
- MurMan 5y ago
  You're right about HN. Experts in all domains. My experience is from the Vietnam era and doesn't apply today. I was drafted mid-way through an EE program when I got behind in units. Virtually all of us had similar backgrounds. The Navy had a knack for teaching nuclear physics & math to bright people with a high school education. The S5W plant that I operated had virtually no automation. Just safety interlocks and a few automatic shutdowns. Everything was analog. The electrical controls used mag-amps: dumb and inefficient, but reliable as hell. Safety was achieved by detailed operating procedures and highly trained crews. We studied and drilled constantly. Most over-qualified group of people I've known. There's no way that I could describe what it was like at sea in a few lines here. It might make for an interesting HN thread as there are other nuc's here. :-)

by MurMan 5y ago

TameAntelope 5y ago

That's amazing and specific experience, very cool! One thing I noticed at the top of the article was that they used the steam as a source of fresh water as well, did subs do this too, when you worked on them?

MurMan 5y ago
Yes. Subs use low-pressure steam to desalinate sea water. Having lots of fresh water for showers was a huge benefit of nuc boats over diesel boats.
- Zenst 5y ago
  Handy, also for oxygen production. Did you ever have to light the candle?
  - MurMan 5y ago
    Oxygen generators use electricity (electrolysis), not steam. Thankfully, we never had to use oxygen candles. Candles are effective only in a small closed space. That would have been a serious emergency.
    - Zenst 5y ago
      Ah yes, was referring to the excess drinking water aspect knowing electrolysis upon sea water will produce chlorine due to the salt, which really would be an emergency in itself. Glad to hear you didn't have a situation to use one and does seem a very rare situation, but neat that there is a solid backup.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - qrybam 5y ago
    For anyone else wondering what “light the candle” means in this context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator
    - Zenst 5y ago
      If you want too see one in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ around 10:19 onwards shows the candle being put into action.
      - jshmrsn 5y ago
        I knew exactly what video you were going to link :) I love when the internet feels small for a moment.
      - stainforth 5y ago
        Every 2 hours in 2 parts of the ship? That seems like a lot of labor.
        Zenst 5y ago
        They alternate between the two sections, so they do one stack every 2 hours and you can see how much labour, 2 man less than 5 mins. Remember, this isn't how they run it all the time and it is the backup system. With that in mind, most backup plans for anything if not a like for like, are always more intensive. Compare writing a letter by hand too sending an email in effort and this, for me, this looks way easier. Worth noting that even in the vid, you have crew members of senior rank watching on as they have never seen it done before, which indicates how uncommon it's usage is.
nielsbot 5y ago
You might find this series from Smarter Every Day interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ud6mHdhlQ I didn't find a bit about how they make drinking water, but here's an episode about how they regenerate their oxygen on a nuclear sub.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

throwawaybutwhy 5y ago

How many times did you get to talk with Rickover? And yes, thank you for your service.

MurMan 5y ago
Just once, briefly when he did an inspection of our boat in Guam. My last memory of him was standing next to the ladder as he left. His pants raised as his ankle reached my eye level exposing a leg that was smaller than my wrist. To me, this was a perfect example of Rickover: a giant in many respects, but small and petty in others.
seanf 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_G._Rickover Fascinating read, sounds like Robert Moses of the Navy

cturner 5y ago

Interesting people come to hacker news. (I'd give another upvote for your username if I could.) What is the essential set of skills/foundation knowledge for a nuclear power plant operator of the sort that you get on a submarine? What do you think of the submarine systems that were designed for you to interact with? Context - I have been thinking recently about submarines and wondering how crew size could be reduced through automation. (I am aware that a lot of work went into this on the Independence class ships, but my working assumption is that this was let down by poor structuring of the design team, rather than that automation is a fundamentally bad idea) Did you have to manage boredom when you were on-shift but did not have much to do? Or is there plenty to do? Or are you allowed to study when there is not much in the way of active responsibilities?

krisoft 5y ago
> I have been thinking recently about submarines and wondering how crew size could be reduced through automation. I believe the Alfa class submarines went this exact route. According to Sutton it had a crew complement of 32: http://www.hisutton.com/Alfa_Class_Submarine.html http://www.hisutton.com/Alfa_Class_Submarine.html Much more modern plans along similar design thinking is the SHELF reactor. It is designed to operates in an underwater, sealed capsule that is monitored and controlled remotely. Source: https://aris.iaea.org/Publications/smr-status-sep-2012.pdf https://aris.iaea.org/Publications/smr-status-sep-2012.pdf
MurMan 5y ago
You're right about HN. Experts in all domains. My experience is from the Vietnam era and doesn't apply today. I was drafted mid-way through an EE program when I got behind in units. Virtually all of us had similar backgrounds. The Navy had a knack for teaching nuclear physics & math to bright people with a high school education. The S5W plant that I operated had virtually no automation. Just safety interlocks and a few automatic shutdowns. Everything was analog. The electrical controls used mag-amps: dumb and inefficient, but reliable as hell. Safety was achieved by detailed operating procedures and highly trained crews. We studied and drilled constantly. Most over-qualified group of people I've known. There's no way that I could describe what it was like at sea in a few lines here. It might make for an interesting HN thread as there are other nuc's here. :-)