5 ms·

Crime is a social construct. edit: A poor person who steals is charged. A rich person who steals behind the facade of a company is not. We call the poor person

Crime is a social construct. edit: A poor person who steals is charged. A rich person who steals behind the facade of a company is not. We call the poor person a criminal. It's entirely divorced from an actual moral framework, but simply constructed. I was agreeing with the commenter I replied to.

mdavidn 5y ago
So are criminal charges.
- GIFnotGIF 5y ago
  So are movies.
  - arthurcolle 5y ago
    Movies are real physical artifacts. Calling them a social construct is beyond specious.
    - GIFnotGIF 5y ago
      I was just joining the thread
- usrusr 5y ago
  And the entire concept of ownership. It's actually quite unbelievable how there can be societies that do have the concept of a death sentence, but don't have the concept of a property nullification sentence. "You may live, but you have to start at zero and any obligation someone might have to you is nullified". The inverse of bankruptcy, basically.
  - ohhhhhh 5y ago
    That's cause this idea is completely immoral
    - Thiez 5y ago
      Moreso than the death penalty, in your opinion?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tolbish 5y ago
I don't understand why you are getting downvoted. When people say they support "Law and order" they are not talking about all crime—they are not referring to fraud or market manipulation for example (white collar crime). They are referring to enforcing laws on just a certain subset of society.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  > They are referring to enforcing laws on just a certain subset of society. Or enforcing a certain subset of laws on all society. And it's not just the "bigbiz-friendly" reds, it's also the blues with their "lets not punish non-violent crime". The fact is laws in the US (and elsewhere) are written, but unevenly enforced, as such what remains is quibbling over priority. I want to see more punishments for white collar crime, but I also want to see less leniency for repeated blue-collar crime too.
  - tolbish 5y ago
    The difference being "the blues" have never pretended to be the party of law and order. Because, as you noted, the "bigbiz-friendly reds" do not actually support law and order either, the term "law and order" is in reality a dogwhistle. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics)
    - Chris2048 5y ago
      > the term "law and order" is in reality a dogwhistle funny that you brought it up then. You also provided a WP article to define "dog whistle", but nothing supporting "reds do not actually support law and order" which seems the crux of you argument.
  - sidlls 5y ago
    Less leniency? "Blue-collar crime" in the US carries some of the most draconian penalties of any developed nation.
    - 5y ago
Chris2048 5y ago
Simplistic. A poor person is not usually trusted, so their thefts are often more egregious.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I disagree with the characterization that MoviePass’ theft is less egregious than a poor person’s theft, such as of a physical item. MoviePass’ theft contributes to a weakening of trust amongst everyone in society, which is a much more difficult problem to address than theft of physical goods. Not that society should be lenient on either.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    If I steal an item I deprive a person of that item. But the manner in which it is stolen can also cause damage, e.g. breaking and entering. People in positions of trust are able to steal with minimal damage caused by the method of theft itself. > a weakening of trust amongst everyone in society That's a very vague accusation, and can apply to nearly anything immoral. MP should return any money due, have it's credit score damaged, and punished for wilful fraud - but I wouldn't compare it to violent theft, or B&E.

mdavidn 5y ago

So are criminal charges.

GIFnotGIF 5y ago
So are movies.
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  Movies are real physical artifacts. Calling them a social construct is beyond specious.
  - GIFnotGIF 5y ago
    I was just joining the thread
usrusr 5y ago
And the entire concept of ownership. It's actually quite unbelievable how there can be societies that do have the concept of a death sentence, but don't have the concept of a property nullification sentence. "You may live, but you have to start at zero and any obligation someone might have to you is nullified". The inverse of bankruptcy, basically.
- ohhhhhh 5y ago
  That's cause this idea is completely immoral
  - Thiez 5y ago
    Moreso than the death penalty, in your opinion?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

tolbish 5y ago

I don't understand why you are getting downvoted. When people say they support "Law and order" they are not talking about all crime—they are not referring to fraud or market manipulation for example (white collar crime). They are referring to enforcing laws on just a certain subset of society.

Chris2048 5y ago
> They are referring to enforcing laws on just a certain subset of society. Or enforcing a certain subset of laws on all society. And it's not just the "bigbiz-friendly" reds, it's also the blues with their "lets not punish non-violent crime". The fact is laws in the US (and elsewhere) are written, but unevenly enforced, as such what remains is quibbling over priority. I want to see more punishments for white collar crime, but I also want to see less leniency for repeated blue-collar crime too.
- tolbish 5y ago
  The difference being "the blues" have never pretended to be the party of law and order. Because, as you noted, the "bigbiz-friendly reds" do not actually support law and order either, the term "law and order" is in reality a dogwhistle. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics)
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    > the term "law and order" is in reality a dogwhistle funny that you brought it up then. You also provided a WP article to define "dog whistle", but nothing supporting "reds do not actually support law and order" which seems the crux of you argument.
- sidlls 5y ago
  Less leniency? "Blue-collar crime" in the US carries some of the most draconian penalties of any developed nation.
  - 5y ago

Chris2048 5y ago

Simplistic. A poor person is not usually trusted, so their thefts are often more egregious.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
I disagree with the characterization that MoviePass’ theft is less egregious than a poor person’s theft, such as of a physical item. MoviePass’ theft contributes to a weakening of trust amongst everyone in society, which is a much more difficult problem to address than theft of physical goods. Not that society should be lenient on either.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  If I steal an item I deprive a person of that item. But the manner in which it is stolen can also cause damage, e.g. breaking and entering. People in positions of trust are able to steal with minimal damage caused by the method of theft itself. > a weakening of trust amongst everyone in society That's a very vague accusation, and can apply to nearly anything immoral. MP should return any money due, have it's credit score damaged, and punished for wilful fraud - but I wouldn't compare it to violent theft, or B&E.