7 ms·

The first open source multi-device development framework.

81 points by damusnet 15y ago

Meai 15y ago
So from reading the website, I don't understand what this framework does for me. I can get "cross device compatability" by using plain old javascript and html myself. Why do I need this one? :)
- lylejohnson 15y ago
  A partial answer to your question, from the FAQ: "What differs from other JavaScript Frameworks ? Joshfire share the same will of easing Web Application development by introducing template engines, MVC coding style, magic UI binding to data and so on. However, until now, each framework had its own supported platforms: mobile webkit for some, recent desktop browsers for the others. Joshfire targets platforms ranging from IE6 to mobile devices, connected televisions and even headless devices."
- Inufu 15y ago
  Especially since you still need XCode to deploy to iOS ..
  - robinduckett 15y ago
    If you mean deploy web apps to iOS, you are greatly mistaken. This is a web app framework.
- sylvinus 15y ago
  you don't "need" it but it will save you time by already packing all glue and standard code for the supported platforms (SDKs, specific video components on TVs, scrolling on mobiles, code for handling keyboard/remote keystrokes, ...)
robinduckett 15y ago
Android examples don't seem to work, maybe when it's matured. Edit: Also, the back button gets broken badly whenever a link is tapped on Android. Disappointing.
- sylvinus 15y ago
  Hi, yes it's a Developer Preview, we didn't expect the HN #1 slot so fast ;-) Back button support is implemented (works on the website which is itself written with the framework) but we didn't polish all the examples enough just yet... will do! Edit: The "Videolist" example has an Android connector that we test on Galaxy Tab. We do need to get more of these devices asap... (thanks fragmentation!)
towndrunk 15y ago
Interesting how "web" was left out of the title.
- camiller 15y ago
  Yeah, the site is kind of slow right not but I can't tell if they provide an abstraction layer to various system level API's or not to get access to accelerometers, gyros, cameras, etc. like PhoneGap the other "first open source multi-device development framework" that I'm aware of.
  - sylvinus 15y ago
    Developers can use phonegap to provide these abstractions where they make sense (mobile). Another focus of the framework is TVs and connected objects, where we do provide abstraction for media elements like video : each TV SDK (Samsung, Philips, LG, ...) has its proprietary widget
possibilistic 15y ago
Everybody, just a friendly reminder not to be too harsh on these guys. They are putting their stuff out in the open for others to use, so if you find faults offer some positive feedback and encouragement. Your website is obviously getting hammered right now, so I couldn't really read it. It does seem somewhat inaccessible, though. I did manage to get to your github and the first thing that struck me was that your project is GPL. Could you guys consider something else? It's viral, and not everyone can license their projects under that. Maybe LGPL? The README file should be much more informative too. It's nice to have some kind of documentation in there.
- sylvinus 15y ago
  Thanks! Here's the github link while we activate the cache on the server: https://github.com/joshfire/joshfire-framework https://github.com/joshfire/joshfire-framework This was released 2 days ago so yes it's still very rough around the edges! It's currently GPL but there's also a free MIT-like commercial license that applies if you're not an OEM. So no problems for most projects. Any other feedback is welcomed :)
  - josegonzalez 15y ago
    Why have two licenses? Why not just MIT?
    - sylvinus 15y ago
      very simple, because as a company we'd like for manufacturers (think Samsung or LG) to come to us for licensing if they want to release a device using the framework. That business plan allows us to avoid dicking around with developers like others do (we're on github, we don't try to obfuscate anything in order to sell "support") while still being able to make real money. opinions on this position for an open source editor are welcome! we're still young :)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- 15y ago
JoeAltmaier 15y ago
Seems like a quick way to bring up wizard-like apps - panels with navigation controls and content. How does it deal with screen-geometry?
- sylvinus 15y ago
  can you be more specific? currently the adapters mostly implement the input methods of each device (touch, tv remove, mouse, ...) and most of the styling is left the the developer with CSS/Templates.
  - JoeAltmaier 15y ago
    I'm thinking a phone app might factor the interface into multiple panels, while a desktop app may have one composite panel. A pad might not have buttons at all. So what is called "styling" is the hard part - essentially you have to write a new app for each platform. How cool would it be, if an app specification could be vague, mention the elements by function but the platform determined the instance and layout? Maybe let you set a couple of clues, linking the elements together by properties, letting the app engine choose how to factor the app onto the device.
    - sylvinus 15y ago
      we do parts of what you describe: an app is indeed specified in a quite abstract way (http://framework.joshfire.com/doc/0.9/gettingstarted/overview http://framework.joshfire.com/doc/0.9/gettingstarted/overvie...), however we don't go as far as implementing automatic transforms from multiple panels to a composite one for instance. these choices are left to the developer but we make their implementation easy.
babel17 15y ago
I wished I could wish you good luck, but more Javascript is a just a big step in the wrong direction :-) The good thing about Javascript is that it is sort of functional, but it gets so many things wrong...
- sylvinus 15y ago
  Wrong direction? Depends on where you're headed to :) The #1 goal for this framework is being cross-device. Having the same language run wherever we need (client side, server side with nodejs) is a big step in that direction. Now, this is clearly not the same direction as "find the purest, most perfect language" but that's for others to look for :) We just try to solve this one multi-device issue.
  - babel17 15y ago
    Yes, and you get my respect for that. It is probably also the smartest solution to try to use Javascript for that purpose, because it has such a large following. But expect not so smart people to come up with a multi-device solution that isn't based on Javascript :-)
- dstein 15y ago
  What's the right direction?
  - babel17 15y ago
    http://www.babel-17.com http://www.babel-17.com This is the right direction. But definitely not where the momentum is :-D
    - dstein 15y ago
      You're comparing apples to oranges. New programming languages are great, but it's a very different problem domain than web UI interfaces.
      - 15y ago
randall 15y ago
I'm maybe a bit more n00bish than most, but I don't get the usecase, and the examples don't really explain it either. Anyone want to enlighten me? Is it just a way of writing an app in JS, and having something else translate it for whichever platform its on?
- sylvinus 15y ago
  yes it's writing an app in JS in a way that's portable and that can use device-specific implementations of both UI Components (video for instance) and input methods (touch/mouse/keyboards/http/...)
Hisoka 15y ago
Can I write in Javascript and your framework will convert it to a native iPhone app? If so, I'm gonna spread the word to my followers and make sure everyone at least tries this
- mshron 15y ago
  There is such a project already, called PhoneGap: http://www.phonegap.com/ http://www.phonegap.com/
  - Hisoka 15y ago
    I meant convert it to a real native app, not wrap it. I meant actually converting the Javascript to Objective C. So when you do: <div>Hi there!</div><div padding="5px">Hello!</div>, it gets converted to: frame = CGRectMake(0,0, 10, 10); frame.label.text = "Hi there"; frame2 = CGRectMake(15, 15, ...) frame2.label.text = "Hello";
    - sylvinus 15y ago
      Titanium from Appcelerator does allow controlling native components from javascript, however the base UI definition is not HTML AFAIK.
alphadogg 15y ago
The more devices targetted by a framework, the lower the common denominator...
- sylvinus 15y ago
  That is if you plan to run almost the same code on all platforms Two counter examples here: - For devices without a JS interpreter, app is executed server-side - Progressive enhancement / Graceful degration : some platforms can have more features than others

81 points by damusnet 15y ago

Meai 15y ago

So from reading the website, I don't understand what this framework does for me. I can get "cross device compatability" by using plain old javascript and html myself. Why do I need this one? :)

lylejohnson 15y ago
A partial answer to your question, from the FAQ: "What differs from other JavaScript Frameworks ? Joshfire share the same will of easing Web Application development by introducing template engines, MVC coding style, magic UI binding to data and so on. However, until now, each framework had its own supported platforms: mobile webkit for some, recent desktop browsers for the others. Joshfire targets platforms ranging from IE6 to mobile devices, connected televisions and even headless devices."
Inufu 15y ago
Especially since you still need XCode to deploy to iOS ..
- robinduckett 15y ago
  If you mean deploy web apps to iOS, you are greatly mistaken. This is a web app framework.
sylvinus 15y ago
you don't "need" it but it will save you time by already packing all glue and standard code for the supported platforms (SDKs, specific video components on TVs, scrolling on mobiles, code for handling keyboard/remote keystrokes, ...)

robinduckett 15y ago

Android examples don't seem to work, maybe when it's matured. Edit: Also, the back button gets broken badly whenever a link is tapped on Android. Disappointing.

sylvinus 15y ago
Hi, yes it's a Developer Preview, we didn't expect the HN #1 slot so fast ;-) Back button support is implemented (works on the website which is itself written with the framework) but we didn't polish all the examples enough just yet... will do! Edit: The "Videolist" example has an Android connector that we test on Galaxy Tab. We do need to get more of these devices asap... (thanks fragmentation!)

towndrunk 15y ago

Interesting how "web" was left out of the title.

camiller 15y ago
Yeah, the site is kind of slow right not but I can't tell if they provide an abstraction layer to various system level API's or not to get access to accelerometers, gyros, cameras, etc. like PhoneGap the other "first open source multi-device development framework" that I'm aware of.
- sylvinus 15y ago
  Developers can use phonegap to provide these abstractions where they make sense (mobile). Another focus of the framework is TVs and connected objects, where we do provide abstraction for media elements like video : each TV SDK (Samsung, Philips, LG, ...) has its proprietary widget

possibilistic 15y ago

Everybody, just a friendly reminder not to be too harsh on these guys. They are putting their stuff out in the open for others to use, so if you find faults offer some positive feedback and encouragement. Your website is obviously getting hammered right now, so I couldn't really read it. It does seem somewhat inaccessible, though. I did manage to get to your github and the first thing that struck me was that your project is GPL. Could you guys consider something else? It's viral, and not everyone can license their projects under that. Maybe LGPL? The README file should be much more informative too. It's nice to have some kind of documentation in there.

sylvinus 15y ago
Thanks! Here's the github link while we activate the cache on the server: https://github.com/joshfire/joshfire-framework https://github.com/joshfire/joshfire-framework This was released 2 days ago so yes it's still very rough around the edges! It's currently GPL but there's also a free MIT-like commercial license that applies if you're not an OEM. So no problems for most projects. Any other feedback is welcomed :)
- josegonzalez 15y ago
  Why have two licenses? Why not just MIT?
  - sylvinus 15y ago
    very simple, because as a company we'd like for manufacturers (think Samsung or LG) to come to us for licensing if they want to release a device using the framework. That business plan allows us to avoid dicking around with developers like others do (we're on github, we don't try to obfuscate anything in order to sell "support") while still being able to make real money. opinions on this position for an open source editor are welcome! we're still young :)
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
15y ago

JoeAltmaier 15y ago

Seems like a quick way to bring up wizard-like apps - panels with navigation controls and content. How does it deal with screen-geometry?

sylvinus 15y ago
can you be more specific? currently the adapters mostly implement the input methods of each device (touch, tv remove, mouse, ...) and most of the styling is left the the developer with CSS/Templates.
- JoeAltmaier 15y ago
  I'm thinking a phone app might factor the interface into multiple panels, while a desktop app may have one composite panel. A pad might not have buttons at all. So what is called "styling" is the hard part - essentially you have to write a new app for each platform. How cool would it be, if an app specification could be vague, mention the elements by function but the platform determined the instance and layout? Maybe let you set a couple of clues, linking the elements together by properties, letting the app engine choose how to factor the app onto the device.
  - sylvinus 15y ago
    we do parts of what you describe: an app is indeed specified in a quite abstract way (http://framework.joshfire.com/doc/0.9/gettingstarted/overview http://framework.joshfire.com/doc/0.9/gettingstarted/overvie...), however we don't go as far as implementing automatic transforms from multiple panels to a composite one for instance. these choices are left to the developer but we make their implementation easy.

babel17 15y ago

I wished I could wish you good luck, but more Javascript is a just a big step in the wrong direction :-) The good thing about Javascript is that it is sort of functional, but it gets so many things wrong...

sylvinus 15y ago
Wrong direction? Depends on where you're headed to :) The #1 goal for this framework is being cross-device. Having the same language run wherever we need (client side, server side with nodejs) is a big step in that direction. Now, this is clearly not the same direction as "find the purest, most perfect language" but that's for others to look for :) We just try to solve this one multi-device issue.
- babel17 15y ago
  Yes, and you get my respect for that. It is probably also the smartest solution to try to use Javascript for that purpose, because it has such a large following. But expect not so smart people to come up with a multi-device solution that isn't based on Javascript :-)
dstein 15y ago
What's the right direction?
- babel17 15y ago
  http://www.babel-17.com http://www.babel-17.com This is the right direction. But definitely not where the momentum is :-D
  - dstein 15y ago
    You're comparing apples to oranges. New programming languages are great, but it's a very different problem domain than web UI interfaces.
    - 15y ago

randall 15y ago

I'm maybe a bit more n00bish than most, but I don't get the usecase, and the examples don't really explain it either. Anyone want to enlighten me? Is it just a way of writing an app in JS, and having something else translate it for whichever platform its on?

sylvinus 15y ago
yes it's writing an app in JS in a way that's portable and that can use device-specific implementations of both UI Components (video for instance) and input methods (touch/mouse/keyboards/http/...)

Hisoka 15y ago

Can I write in Javascript and your framework will convert it to a native iPhone app? If so, I'm gonna spread the word to my followers and make sure everyone at least tries this

mshron 15y ago
There is such a project already, called PhoneGap: http://www.phonegap.com/ http://www.phonegap.com/
- Hisoka 15y ago
  I meant convert it to a real native app, not wrap it. I meant actually converting the Javascript to Objective C. So when you do: <div>Hi there!</div><div padding="5px">Hello!</div>, it gets converted to: frame = CGRectMake(0,0, 10, 10); frame.label.text = "Hi there"; frame2 = CGRectMake(15, 15, ...) frame2.label.text = "Hello";
  - sylvinus 15y ago
    Titanium from Appcelerator does allow controlling native components from javascript, however the base UI definition is not HTML AFAIK.

alphadogg 15y ago

The more devices targetted by a framework, the lower the common denominator...

sylvinus 15y ago
That is if you plan to run almost the same code on all platforms Two counter examples here: - For devices without a JS interpreter, app is executed server-side - Progressive enhancement / Graceful degration : some platforms can have more features than others