6 ms·

Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings

37 points by mzarate06 5y ago

ub99 5y ago
It’s astonishing how a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value of an entire monetary ecosystem via a series of Tweets. What’s the advantage of Bitcoin being - allegedly - so independent from governments and other centralized powers then?
- polishdude20 5y ago
  Yeah, the more news like this that comes out, the more I realize it's not much more than a popularity contest.
  - ketamine__ 5y ago
    You could easily say this about the stock market. Imagine if Buffett came out and said in advance he was going to sell all his Coke stock.
    - RocketOne 5y ago
      Except that he wouldn't because he knows that would manipulate the market and he's more responsible than that.
      - SigmundA 5y ago
        Its not just that he's more responsible, its illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation
    - ub99 5y ago
      I actually agree with this analogy. However, Bitcoin is not stock - unless now, after first calling a currency, then a store of value, we magically transition to calling Bitcoin a stock-like asset.
    - bob33212 5y ago
      But people would continue to buy Coke. And Coke would continue to make a profit and Buffet would look stupid when the company did well, even if he was able to cause a 10% dip in the stock. It is unlikely that the world would stop drinking code because Buffet said he didn't like the stock. Bitcoin on the other hand, has no profits and only can be successful by having everyone agree it is better to own than gold. So if Musk's opinion is followed by many other people it will bring bitcoin down for a long time.
- natmaka 5y ago
  In the "crypto" world nobody really knows what affects the value (correlation does not imply causation). If someone claims to know, let's just check his predictions' accuracy. For a centralized power confiscation and devaluation are more difficult to apply in the "crypto" world. Value stems from opinions, and in the "crypto" world everyone is free to form his own opinion and act accordingly. Doing so is more difficult under some governments/centralized powers. Many celebrities publish various claims about "cryptos", and even a major disagreement isn't innocuous. Major disagreement between central powers about important matters, for example money, may lead to war.
  - moralestapia 5y ago
    >correlation does not imply causation It does not exclude it either. That is such a vacuous statement and I'm tired of it being used every simgle time someone has a chance to drop the most cliche "smart guy" phrase in modern parlance. But back to the topic ... Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions, i.e. it was just a coincidence?
    - natmaka 5y ago
      > It does not exclude it either Indeed. I wrote "nobody really knows what affects the value". You wrote "a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value", and my answer was just a reminder: nobody knows for sure. > Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions I never wrote this. Speaking about vacuous things: I'm tired of the straw man trick In my opinion Musk Tweets probably had an effect, but I doubt anyone can show to which extent, especially indirectly (people acting upon their thought about the reaction of other people to Musk's Tweets...).
jacobmischka 5y ago
I believe Bitcoin is a scam and Musk is mostly just a rich memer with high aspirations, but this seems like a bit of a stretch based on a single word in a single tweet.
- ericwooley 5y ago
  How is it a scam? I believe cars can fly, and bill gates is actually the president
  - jacobmischka 5y ago
    If a single word tweet can lose people thousands of dollars that sounds like a scam to me.
    - ericwooley 5y ago
      Then all stocks are a scam because every CEO can tank their stock with a tweet
      - jacobmischka 5y ago
        I don't disagree.
- not_really 5y ago
  Some people believe the earth is flat, too.
adflux 5y ago
What an utter pillock has this guy become. Guess Tesla stock is going to get hammered again tomorrow, as Musk = Tesla in the view of the consumer
- loceng 5y ago
  Had to lookup pillock - it's a real word! Why do you think he's a pillock? Don't you think he's got some merit considering he's climbed the ladder with successful exit after successful exit and now is #1/#2 richest person on Earth? Do you think his decision making is all fluke?
  - protoax 5y ago
    Believe it or not, you can be financially successful and still be a bad person. Bernie Madoff wasn't the most moral person.
    - loceng 5y ago
      So you changed the argument to bad vs. not bad person. Don't you think there's a net benefit to Elon with Tesla getting literally all vehicle manufacturers to now seriously be on the path to mass producing EVs? How do you account or calculate that vs. whatever other behaviours he may engage in? Funny you bring up Ponzi schemes too, considering that's what Bitcoin is - just global and decentralized - with a few other bells and whistles misattributed to Bitcoin from blockchain; so are all all earlier adopters who then peddle/hype Bitcoin without understanding it also then bad people, or only if they understand it has a MLM-Ponzi structure and they're happy to milk schmucks/layperson that the SEC is meant to protect?
      - protoax 5y ago
        My understanding of the word pillock is that it is a synonym for the word jackass. So I am referring to the fact that just because he is financially successful, does not mean he cannot be a jackass and voluntarily do bad things, which is what you insinuated.
rvz 5y ago
Once again, they are not interested in hodling in the first place as I have said weeks ago. [0] They are interested in making money and Elon and Tesla know that they are able to move the crypto markets. If they have already sold it, well that is the 'dump' + negative coverage / spin on BTC to pressurise the price to fall further. Now the poor HODLers at >$60K will have to wait a while until the next run up to the all time high. One more thing in this crypto-currency episode, 'What goes up, musk go down.' [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27086093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27086093
- loceng 5y ago
  I mean, shouldn't it be taken as a lesson that if the kids want to play with fire, an unregulated market (include MLM-Ponzi scheme structure by all accounts), then that's one type of pitfall that exists? Elon's also publicly said, tweeted not too long ago: "Bitcoin is almost as much bs as fiat money" - so just because the markets didn't know or report on that to help provide a balanced, critical breakdown to promote balanced news - that's all Elon's fault? The mob of irrational buyers have no responsibility to know what they're "investing" in or to research and understand statements or behaviours about what they're "investing" in?
  - ketamine__ 5y ago
    Did Elon issue a warning to the public? Did he tell them not to buy? Did he post a tweet agreeing with Munger and telling people to stay away? He fed the fire because it helped raise his public persona. I think he does have responsibility.
    - loceng 5y ago
      Sure if you want to play that game - it was great of him to make it news to highlight how bad/energy intensive (for what end?) Bitcoin is. So thanks Elon.
- ketamine__ 5y ago
  There's a cult of personality around him.
neillyons 5y ago
I guess insider trading doesn't apply to Bitcoin?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bdcravens 5y ago
  Who would be an insider? In general, many regulations do not apply. The Bitcoin party line is that they like it that way.
  - ketamine__ 5y ago
    https://pomp.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-bitcoin-when-elon https://pomp.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-bitcoin-when-el... > Let us first cover the elephant in the room: the Elon dump. Firstly, there were 19,259 BTC moved onto exchanges before Elon’s tweet and ensuing price dump. I do not think this is coincidence and was likely someone with insider information. Regulations may not apply but it would be interesting if Musk told one of his rich friends before posting the tweet. That could look bad for him if something like that was discovered.

37 points by mzarate06 5y ago

ub99 5y ago

It’s astonishing how a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value of an entire monetary ecosystem via a series of Tweets. What’s the advantage of Bitcoin being - allegedly - so independent from governments and other centralized powers then?

polishdude20 5y ago
Yeah, the more news like this that comes out, the more I realize it's not much more than a popularity contest.
- ketamine__ 5y ago
  You could easily say this about the stock market. Imagine if Buffett came out and said in advance he was going to sell all his Coke stock.
  - RocketOne 5y ago
    Except that he wouldn't because he knows that would manipulate the market and he's more responsible than that.
    - SigmundA 5y ago
      Its not just that he's more responsible, its illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation
  - ub99 5y ago
    I actually agree with this analogy. However, Bitcoin is not stock - unless now, after first calling a currency, then a store of value, we magically transition to calling Bitcoin a stock-like asset.
  - bob33212 5y ago
    But people would continue to buy Coke. And Coke would continue to make a profit and Buffet would look stupid when the company did well, even if he was able to cause a 10% dip in the stock. It is unlikely that the world would stop drinking code because Buffet said he didn't like the stock. Bitcoin on the other hand, has no profits and only can be successful by having everyone agree it is better to own than gold. So if Musk's opinion is followed by many other people it will bring bitcoin down for a long time.
natmaka 5y ago
In the "crypto" world nobody really knows what affects the value (correlation does not imply causation). If someone claims to know, let's just check his predictions' accuracy. For a centralized power confiscation and devaluation are more difficult to apply in the "crypto" world. Value stems from opinions, and in the "crypto" world everyone is free to form his own opinion and act accordingly. Doing so is more difficult under some governments/centralized powers. Many celebrities publish various claims about "cryptos", and even a major disagreement isn't innocuous. Major disagreement between central powers about important matters, for example money, may lead to war.
- moralestapia 5y ago
  >correlation does not imply causation It does not exclude it either. That is such a vacuous statement and I'm tired of it being used every simgle time someone has a chance to drop the most cliche "smart guy" phrase in modern parlance. But back to the topic ... Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions, i.e. it was just a coincidence?
  - natmaka 5y ago
    > It does not exclude it either Indeed. I wrote "nobody really knows what affects the value". You wrote "a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value", and my answer was just a reminder: nobody knows for sure. > Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions I never wrote this. Speaking about vacuous things: I'm tired of the straw man trick In my opinion Musk Tweets probably had an effect, but I doubt anyone can show to which extent, especially indirectly (people acting upon their thought about the reaction of other people to Musk's Tweets...).

jacobmischka 5y ago

I believe Bitcoin is a scam and Musk is mostly just a rich memer with high aspirations, but this seems like a bit of a stretch based on a single word in a single tweet.

ericwooley 5y ago
How is it a scam? I believe cars can fly, and bill gates is actually the president
- jacobmischka 5y ago
  If a single word tweet can lose people thousands of dollars that sounds like a scam to me.
  - ericwooley 5y ago
    Then all stocks are a scam because every CEO can tank their stock with a tweet
    - jacobmischka 5y ago
      I don't disagree.
not_really 5y ago
Some people believe the earth is flat, too.

adflux 5y ago

What an utter pillock has this guy become. Guess Tesla stock is going to get hammered again tomorrow, as Musk = Tesla in the view of the consumer

loceng 5y ago
Had to lookup pillock - it's a real word! Why do you think he's a pillock? Don't you think he's got some merit considering he's climbed the ladder with successful exit after successful exit and now is #1/#2 richest person on Earth? Do you think his decision making is all fluke?
- protoax 5y ago
  Believe it or not, you can be financially successful and still be a bad person. Bernie Madoff wasn't the most moral person.
  - loceng 5y ago
    So you changed the argument to bad vs. not bad person. Don't you think there's a net benefit to Elon with Tesla getting literally all vehicle manufacturers to now seriously be on the path to mass producing EVs? How do you account or calculate that vs. whatever other behaviours he may engage in? Funny you bring up Ponzi schemes too, considering that's what Bitcoin is - just global and decentralized - with a few other bells and whistles misattributed to Bitcoin from blockchain; so are all all earlier adopters who then peddle/hype Bitcoin without understanding it also then bad people, or only if they understand it has a MLM-Ponzi structure and they're happy to milk schmucks/layperson that the SEC is meant to protect?
    - protoax 5y ago
      My understanding of the word pillock is that it is a synonym for the word jackass. So I am referring to the fact that just because he is financially successful, does not mean he cannot be a jackass and voluntarily do bad things, which is what you insinuated.

rvz 5y ago

Once again, they are not interested in hodling in the first place as I have said weeks ago. [0] They are interested in making money and Elon and Tesla know that they are able to move the crypto markets. If they have already sold it, well that is the 'dump' + negative coverage / spin on BTC to pressurise the price to fall further. Now the poor HODLers at >$60K will have to wait a while until the next run up to the all time high. One more thing in this crypto-currency episode, 'What goes up, musk go down.' [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27086093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27086093

loceng 5y ago
I mean, shouldn't it be taken as a lesson that if the kids want to play with fire, an unregulated market (include MLM-Ponzi scheme structure by all accounts), then that's one type of pitfall that exists? Elon's also publicly said, tweeted not too long ago: "Bitcoin is almost as much bs as fiat money" - so just because the markets didn't know or report on that to help provide a balanced, critical breakdown to promote balanced news - that's all Elon's fault? The mob of irrational buyers have no responsibility to know what they're "investing" in or to research and understand statements or behaviours about what they're "investing" in?
- ketamine__ 5y ago
  Did Elon issue a warning to the public? Did he tell them not to buy? Did he post a tweet agreeing with Munger and telling people to stay away? He fed the fire because it helped raise his public persona. I think he does have responsibility.
  - loceng 5y ago
    Sure if you want to play that game - it was great of him to make it news to highlight how bad/energy intensive (for what end?) Bitcoin is. So thanks Elon.
ketamine__ 5y ago
There's a cult of personality around him.

neillyons 5y ago

I guess insider trading doesn't apply to Bitcoin?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bdcravens 5y ago
Who would be an insider? In general, many regulations do not apply. The Bitcoin party line is that they like it that way.
- ketamine__ 5y ago
  https://pomp.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-bitcoin-when-elon https://pomp.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-bitcoin-when-el... > Let us first cover the elephant in the room: the Elon dump. Firstly, there were 19,259 BTC moved onto exchanges before Elon’s tweet and ensuing price dump. I do not think this is coincidence and was likely someone with insider information. Regulations may not apply but it would be interesting if Musk told one of his rich friends before posting the tweet. That could look bad for him if something like that was discovered.