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It is the exact same story for me. I don't know how people are able to stare at code, walking through those complex patterns, for 6 hours a day, let alone the e

It is the exact same story for me. I don't know how people are able to stare at code, walking through those complex patterns, for 6 hours a day, let alone the entire 9-5 time or the overwork hours the tech industry seems to love. I love technology and I enjoy my work, but it doesn't define me as a human being. There are opportunities I've had to do some work at what people would consider "prestigious" companies but I've turned it down in order to have better work life balance.

BLKNSLVR 5y ago
> doesn't define me as a human being This is it. I've had various issues with unrealistic requests and timelines from those to whom I report, and it feels as if I need to, somehow, "work harder" (whatever that means) to prove that I'm trying to execute their impossible plan. When I get home, however, the mere presence of my wife and kids, and even pet(s), remind me of how I actually define myself, WHO I AM. I like art. Be it paintings, music, film, TV shows. That's where I find "myself". I'm good at things I do for work, but I don't care about it the way I care about the meanings of life I can find staring into a painting, or listening to a song (anywhere from Mr. Bungle to Debussy) or watching a TV show (anywhere from Adventure Time to For All Mankind). I'm privileged enough, and have planned ahead enough, that I could significantly downgrade my already not-very-prestigious, but quite demanding job, and live well. My job doesn't come close to defining me, to myself anyway. That's probably the other "thing" - how people want to be able to define themselves to others. I'm relatively unaffected by that particular neuroticism.
- lloeki 5y ago
  > I like art. I like coding. The thinking, the problem solving, the expressiveness, the chiselling out of a solid block of emptiness. It is my art. I made it my trade. It's a double-edged sword, with which I badly stabbed myself a couple of times. I tried to drop out, but can't help but come back to it. The job's not me alright, the coding is a big part of me for sure.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    Hah! If I sounded exclusionary when I said art, it wasn't intentional. Art is in whatever one may do. > The thinking, the problem solving, the expressiveness, the chiselling out of a solid block of emptiness Beautifully illustrated. I like a blank whiteboard; it represents potential.
onion2k 5y ago
I don't know how people are able to stare at code, walking through those complex patterns, for 6 hours a day, let alone the entire 9-5 time By not coding for 8 hours. There are many more aspects to being a developer than writing code - documentation, code review, testing, planning, mentoring, etc. Even if you're quite junior and don't get involved in things like planning you can being doing "low mental workload" tasks like writing lots of repetitive-but-necessary tests or manually QAing your own tasks before pushing them to a PR. Your day absolutely should not be 8 hours of extremely focused dev work except on rare occasions when it's needed.
- lloeki 5y ago
  > doing "low mental workload" This I tried, took me a long while to realise I should not have, because "low load" is still load, and what I really needed was rest because I had myself throughly mentally exerted. On top of that "low load" doesn't mean the task is of less importance. Mistakes come by easier when one's already exerted. I don't think the parent meant it that way but suggesting that solution can come out as demeaning for people that already are on the edge of exhaustion and internally questioning themselves.
lloeki 5y ago
> able to stare at code, walking through those complex patterns, for 6 hours a day, let alone the entire 9-5 time or the overwork hours I can do that kind of deep focus, I just can't do it two days in a rows and expect any efficiency the second one, let alone a full week. Truth be told, I somewhat have to do that due to some sort of mild attention disorder (I can't imagine what life must be like for those with a more serious condition). Thankfully over the years intentional practice of a great deal of sports taught me that long term consistency is what matters, doesn't matter if I do things in bursts as long as I don't overexert and rest appropriately (and especially don't bash myself for it). But that requires full agency over my work time, something that I took a decade to unlock via being remote: in a 9-5 office people can't help but wonder why you're slacking all day and dragging your feet in order not to straight up not turning up for work. The feeling of wasting time and the judgemental attitude (both from others and myself) just made me feel miserable, even though overall I was outputting the work and then some. I don't care about prestige, I just care about my well being, and not being disparaged.
thefz 5y ago
> I don't know how people are able to stare at code, walking through those complex patterns, for 6 hours a day, let alone the entire 9-5 time I sometimes enter "the zone" in which I lose track of time and work just flows. But not every day.

BLKNSLVR 5y ago

> doesn't define me as a human being This is it. I've had various issues with unrealistic requests and timelines from those to whom I report, and it feels as if I need to, somehow, "work harder" (whatever that means) to prove that I'm trying to execute their impossible plan. When I get home, however, the mere presence of my wife and kids, and even pet(s), remind me of how I actually define myself, WHO I AM. I like art. Be it paintings, music, film, TV shows. That's where I find "myself". I'm good at things I do for work, but I don't care about it the way I care about the meanings of life I can find staring into a painting, or listening to a song (anywhere from Mr. Bungle to Debussy) or watching a TV show (anywhere from Adventure Time to For All Mankind). I'm privileged enough, and have planned ahead enough, that I could significantly downgrade my already not-very-prestigious, but quite demanding job, and live well. My job doesn't come close to defining me, to myself anyway. That's probably the other "thing" - how people want to be able to define themselves to others. I'm relatively unaffected by that particular neuroticism.

lloeki 5y ago
> I like art. I like coding. The thinking, the problem solving, the expressiveness, the chiselling out of a solid block of emptiness. It is my art. I made it my trade. It's a double-edged sword, with which I badly stabbed myself a couple of times. I tried to drop out, but can't help but come back to it. The job's not me alright, the coding is a big part of me for sure.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  Hah! If I sounded exclusionary when I said art, it wasn't intentional. Art is in whatever one may do. > The thinking, the problem solving, the expressiveness, the chiselling out of a solid block of emptiness Beautifully illustrated. I like a blank whiteboard; it represents potential.

onion2k 5y ago

I don't know how people are able to stare at code, walking through those complex patterns, for 6 hours a day, let alone the entire 9-5 time By not coding for 8 hours. There are many more aspects to being a developer than writing code - documentation, code review, testing, planning, mentoring, etc. Even if you're quite junior and don't get involved in things like planning you can being doing "low mental workload" tasks like writing lots of repetitive-but-necessary tests or manually QAing your own tasks before pushing them to a PR. Your day absolutely should not be 8 hours of extremely focused dev work except on rare occasions when it's needed.

lloeki 5y ago
> doing "low mental workload" This I tried, took me a long while to realise I should not have, because "low load" is still load, and what I really needed was rest because I had myself throughly mentally exerted. On top of that "low load" doesn't mean the task is of less importance. Mistakes come by easier when one's already exerted. I don't think the parent meant it that way but suggesting that solution can come out as demeaning for people that already are on the edge of exhaustion and internally questioning themselves.

lloeki 5y ago

> able to stare at code, walking through those complex patterns, for 6 hours a day, let alone the entire 9-5 time or the overwork hours I can do that kind of deep focus, I just can't do it two days in a rows and expect any efficiency the second one, let alone a full week. Truth be told, I somewhat have to do that due to some sort of mild attention disorder (I can't imagine what life must be like for those with a more serious condition). Thankfully over the years intentional practice of a great deal of sports taught me that long term consistency is what matters, doesn't matter if I do things in bursts as long as I don't overexert and rest appropriately (and especially don't bash myself for it). But that requires full agency over my work time, something that I took a decade to unlock via being remote: in a 9-5 office people can't help but wonder why you're slacking all day and dragging your feet in order not to straight up not turning up for work. The feeling of wasting time and the judgemental attitude (both from others and myself) just made me feel miserable, even though overall I was outputting the work and then some. I don't care about prestige, I just care about my well being, and not being disparaged.

thefz 5y ago

> I don't know how people are able to stare at code, walking through those complex patterns, for 6 hours a day, let alone the entire 9-5 time I sometimes enter "the zone" in which I lose track of time and work just flows. But not every day.