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What is unacceptable to me is why this question is never asked of Fathers. I don’t think anyone would blink at hearing that a dad only sees his kids on weekends

What is unacceptable to me is why this question is never asked of Fathers. I don’t think anyone would blink at hearing that a dad only sees his kids on weekends, but is it not just as harmful? Ultimately though, I fail to understand why anyone without the proper time to devote to a child would chose to have one.

anotha1 5y ago
Unscientifically, absent mother is seen as worse than absent father. I agree, and will may involuntarily postpone having kids because of that reason alone.
- loceng 5y ago
  Absence of either is more or less even-equal of a problem: Jordan Peterson and Warren Farrell on The Boy Crisis and Gender Politics - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AA1lR3CC4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AA1lR3CC4s
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    Don't know you're grayed out. Humans are genetically extremely similar, appearances not-withstanding. Nurture is what creates valuable and functional humans. Societal factors that reduce parents ability to nurture their children are bad regardless of the parents gender.
    - thelean12 5y ago
      It's greyed because Jordan Peterson is a horrific source, regardless of how right or wrong he is on any individual subject.
  - soyou 5y ago
    I don't know if I would trust Jordan Peterson, I was follower of his, watched his YouTube videos where he mocked mental diseases and basically stated only weak men suffer from addiction, depression, stress, etc. But then he ends up addicted, depressed, suicidal, etc. [1]: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12331040/jordan-peterson-suffering-coronavirus-mikhaila-hospital/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12331040/jordan-peterson-suffe...
    - steve_g 5y ago
      I've seen him talk about his tendency toward depression and I've seen him talk about his recent addiction, illness, and ongoing recuperation. I've watched a lot of his videos and read his books. I never saw him mock mental disease or say that addiction was for the weak (unless to the extent that all humanity is weak). That just doesn't sound like the type of thing Peterson would say. I have a hard time believing you.
    - loceng 5y ago
      Would love if you could actually link to evidence of him mocking and saying what you said, and not just linking to an unrelated The Sun article.
  - halbritt 5y ago
    The content of this discussion does an excellent job of explaining the reasoning of the people that have downvoted this comment.
- robocat 5y ago
  If you would be a good parent and want kids, then I believe the idea of delaying is harmful, especially if you are over say 25. Trying to set up the perfect nest, or to save "enough", is not a game that most people can win. At least, the above is from what I have seen of friends that had kids, compared with those that delayed too long.
  - cgrealy 5y ago
    > If you would be a good parent and want kids, then I believe the idea of delaying is harmful, especially if you are over say 25. 25?!? None of the people I know who have kids started trying for them until their 30s. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying your 20s and having kids when you’re ready.
    - hulahoof 5y ago
      The risk of genetic defects increase with age[1]. You are right though, you can definitely have healthy children in your 30's, though late 40s looks a little scary. [1] https://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php/Genetic_risk_maternal_age https://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php/Gene...
    - robocat 5y ago
      The pattern I have seen is enjoying your 20s, then deciding to have a family, but not having a suitable partner, which leads to undesirable outcomes (desperate decisions, never finding a partner, disappointment of not engine up with kids, difficulty conceiving). This goes for men and women. Another pattern is seeing people in their thirties finding it harder to adjust to the necessary changes because they have got accustomed to a lifestyle.
serjester 5y ago
I’d wager that most people would agree that any dad that is seeing his children only on weekends is failing as a father. Obviously there’s some extreme exceptions but by and large I can’t imagine anyone advocating for him.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Lots of horrible fathers in the military, logging, and on oil platforms, I guess.
angmarsbane 5y ago
You have a limited window to have children who likely will outlive you / be around your entire life. Work / time constraints while intense are temporary.
namenotrequired 5y ago
I think you may have misinterpreted the article? It does not discuss how much a mother should see her kids. Only that the amount she wants to see her kids may differ. AFAICT when she says "It seemed horrible", she means "I would not like to be in your shoes", and NOT "you are not devoting the proper time and that is harmful".
klmadfejno 5y ago
I experienced a super busy dad for some long stretches and it never felt harmful personally. Could have been mom alternatively. Probably could not have been both at the same time without feeling some consequence.
scooble 5y ago
I noted the article unquestioningly accepted the stereotype that men have less interest in spending time with their children than women. It strikes me that questioning this assumption would be a very good thing for improving the situation of women in the workplace.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  A good example of how people who present themselves as progressive often reinforce tradition and convention at the same time
- vagrantJin 5y ago
  > improving the situation of women in the workplace This line reads harshly on women's ability to make critical career decisions. Real advice is from your grandmother: make ye bed and lay in it. If a person wants children, that's a conscious choice with happiness, sacrifice and burdens garuanteed. There is no fairy dust, wanna-have-it-all solution. I feel like people of all cultures and ages understood this and it's our generation that's perplexed at everything like chimps let loose in a city.
- tester756 5y ago
  >I noted the article unquestioningly accepted the stereotype that men have less interest in spending time with their children than women. less interest or less opportunity?
  - garmaine 5y ago
    From the article: > But what people without kids may not realize is the extent to which people with kids want their time to be consumed by them. And, on the whole, I’d guess women more so than men. This is a straight-up sexist assumption about the intrinsic interests of fathers in parenting.
DaniloDias 5y ago
Your kids will voraciously consume every moment you can give them. Your ideals will dictate how many moments you make available to them.
benhurmarcel 5y ago
> I don’t think anyone would blink at hearing that a dad only sees his kids on weekends Unless it’s a bad case of divorce, of course that would seem weird and detrimental. Who would consider that normal?

anotha1 5y ago

Unscientifically, absent mother is seen as worse than absent father. I agree, and will may involuntarily postpone having kids because of that reason alone.

loceng 5y ago
Absence of either is more or less even-equal of a problem: Jordan Peterson and Warren Farrell on The Boy Crisis and Gender Politics - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AA1lR3CC4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AA1lR3CC4s
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
  Don't know you're grayed out. Humans are genetically extremely similar, appearances not-withstanding. Nurture is what creates valuable and functional humans. Societal factors that reduce parents ability to nurture their children are bad regardless of the parents gender.
  - thelean12 5y ago
    It's greyed because Jordan Peterson is a horrific source, regardless of how right or wrong he is on any individual subject.
- soyou 5y ago
  I don't know if I would trust Jordan Peterson, I was follower of his, watched his YouTube videos where he mocked mental diseases and basically stated only weak men suffer from addiction, depression, stress, etc. But then he ends up addicted, depressed, suicidal, etc. [1]: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12331040/jordan-peterson-suffering-coronavirus-mikhaila-hospital/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12331040/jordan-peterson-suffe...
  - steve_g 5y ago
    I've seen him talk about his tendency toward depression and I've seen him talk about his recent addiction, illness, and ongoing recuperation. I've watched a lot of his videos and read his books. I never saw him mock mental disease or say that addiction was for the weak (unless to the extent that all humanity is weak). That just doesn't sound like the type of thing Peterson would say. I have a hard time believing you.
  - loceng 5y ago
    Would love if you could actually link to evidence of him mocking and saying what you said, and not just linking to an unrelated The Sun article.
- halbritt 5y ago
  The content of this discussion does an excellent job of explaining the reasoning of the people that have downvoted this comment.
robocat 5y ago
If you would be a good parent and want kids, then I believe the idea of delaying is harmful, especially if you are over say 25. Trying to set up the perfect nest, or to save "enough", is not a game that most people can win. At least, the above is from what I have seen of friends that had kids, compared with those that delayed too long.
- cgrealy 5y ago
  > If you would be a good parent and want kids, then I believe the idea of delaying is harmful, especially if you are over say 25. 25?!? None of the people I know who have kids started trying for them until their 30s. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying your 20s and having kids when you’re ready.
  - hulahoof 5y ago
    The risk of genetic defects increase with age[1]. You are right though, you can definitely have healthy children in your 30's, though late 40s looks a little scary. [1] https://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php/Genetic_risk_maternal_age https://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php/Gene...
  - robocat 5y ago
    The pattern I have seen is enjoying your 20s, then deciding to have a family, but not having a suitable partner, which leads to undesirable outcomes (desperate decisions, never finding a partner, disappointment of not engine up with kids, difficulty conceiving). This goes for men and women. Another pattern is seeing people in their thirties finding it harder to adjust to the necessary changes because they have got accustomed to a lifestyle.

serjester 5y ago

I’d wager that most people would agree that any dad that is seeing his children only on weekends is failing as a father. Obviously there’s some extreme exceptions but by and large I can’t imagine anyone advocating for him.

pessimizer 5y ago
Lots of horrible fathers in the military, logging, and on oil platforms, I guess.

angmarsbane 5y ago

You have a limited window to have children who likely will outlive you / be around your entire life. Work / time constraints while intense are temporary.

namenotrequired 5y ago

I think you may have misinterpreted the article? It does not discuss how much a mother should see her kids. Only that the amount she wants to see her kids may differ. AFAICT when she says "It seemed horrible", she means "I would not like to be in your shoes", and NOT "you are not devoting the proper time and that is harmful".

klmadfejno 5y ago

I experienced a super busy dad for some long stretches and it never felt harmful personally. Could have been mom alternatively. Probably could not have been both at the same time without feeling some consequence.

scooble 5y ago

I noted the article unquestioningly accepted the stereotype that men have less interest in spending time with their children than women. It strikes me that questioning this assumption would be a very good thing for improving the situation of women in the workplace.

silicon2401 5y ago
A good example of how people who present themselves as progressive often reinforce tradition and convention at the same time
vagrantJin 5y ago
> improving the situation of women in the workplace This line reads harshly on women's ability to make critical career decisions. Real advice is from your grandmother: make ye bed and lay in it. If a person wants children, that's a conscious choice with happiness, sacrifice and burdens garuanteed. There is no fairy dust, wanna-have-it-all solution. I feel like people of all cultures and ages understood this and it's our generation that's perplexed at everything like chimps let loose in a city.
tester756 5y ago
>I noted the article unquestioningly accepted the stereotype that men have less interest in spending time with their children than women. less interest or less opportunity?
- garmaine 5y ago
  From the article: > But what people without kids may not realize is the extent to which people with kids want their time to be consumed by them. And, on the whole, I’d guess women more so than men. This is a straight-up sexist assumption about the intrinsic interests of fathers in parenting.

DaniloDias 5y ago

Your kids will voraciously consume every moment you can give them. Your ideals will dictate how many moments you make available to them.

benhurmarcel 5y ago

> I don’t think anyone would blink at hearing that a dad only sees his kids on weekends Unless it’s a bad case of divorce, of course that would seem weird and detrimental. Who would consider that normal?