5 ms·

Some great contenders for new uppestcase letters on this page. http://tom7.org/lowercase/ http://tom7.org/lowercase/

re 5y ago
The tom7 link was posted here a few weeks back, if anyone is interested in that discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26667852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26667852 (167 comments)
- imdsm 5y ago
  When I saw this thread I went looking for the link, couldn't find it. Felt sad. Came to read comments. Saw others have posted it and now I feel content again.
pessimizer 5y ago
The main thing we learned from this is that this a terrible problem to use machine learning for. These are far better, and readable. The algos couldn't even figure out that letters are a bunch of straight lines and neat curves.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- yarcob 5y ago
  I had a similar thought. It's amazing what you can do with machine learning, but this example shows that you can't just throw machine learning at a problem and expect good results. And it shows that, at least for now, machine learning isn't going to make humans obsolete.
- alpaca128 5y ago
  It showed that machine learning is useless if the input format doesn't match the problem. The result would probably be better if the problem was approached more on a vector graphics-based level rather than throwing a bunch of pixel clusters at the program and expecting it to figure out the underlying shapes by itself. I mean, children in school don't learn to write by copying printed letters out of a book either, instead they're shown the individual strokes and their direction step by step.
  - miloignis 5y ago
    His first attempt was vector based, the blobs of pixels / signed distance fields were his second attempt that worked better.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- mcphage 5y ago
  Yes but on the other hand, he could play chess with them, so it's impossible to say if it's bad or not
- gwern 5y ago
  Incidentally, to update my comment there, I asked someone who had a font GAN and he mentioned he'd already found uppercase/lowercase latent directions which can automatically "more-uppercase" letters. It's not that this is a 'terrible problem' - it's borderline trivial. (I've seen highschoolers do much more impressive GAN things.) He just didn't do it even remotely right, is all.
  - Recursing 5y ago
    Do you happen to have a link with some examples? After seeing tom7 video I'm now terribly curious on what a 'more uppercase' font would look like
    - gwern 5y ago
      He didn't provide any samples, sorry.
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    > He just didn't do it even remotely right, is all. To be fair, this was for April's fools, he probably did not intend to get something actually usable (as far as upperercase letters can be usable) .
    - gwern 5y ago
      He put in way more work than would've been necessary to get StyleGAN or CLIP to do a vastly better job, is my point, because he used totally the wrong tools and approach. (And he could put in vastly more work, and it still wouldn't work that way either; the level of effort one would or would not spend on a SIGBOVIK paper is just irrelevant when his approach is doomed from the beginning.)
- tripzilch 5y ago
  Almost if it's emulating the wrong kind of stroke ...
pcl 5y ago
I’d love to see what his trained lower function makes of these.
melllvar 5y ago
If all research papers were written in this style, I'd read a lot more of them. > I trained the network using a home-grown (why??) GPUbased package that I wrote for Red i removal with artificial retina networks [16]—an example of “lowercase i artificial intelligence”—and have improved as I repurposed it for other projects, such as Color- and piece-blind chess [17]. It is “tried and true” in the sense that “every time I tried using it, I truly wanted to throw my computer out the window, and retire to a hermitage in the glade whenceforth I shall nevermore be haunted by a model which has overnight become a sea of infs and NaNs.”

re 5y ago

The tom7 link was posted here a few weeks back, if anyone is interested in that discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26667852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26667852 (167 comments)

imdsm 5y ago
When I saw this thread I went looking for the link, couldn't find it. Felt sad. Came to read comments. Saw others have posted it and now I feel content again.

pessimizer 5y ago

The main thing we learned from this is that this a terrible problem to use machine learning for. These are far better, and readable. The algos couldn't even figure out that letters are a bunch of straight lines and neat curves.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
yarcob 5y ago
I had a similar thought. It's amazing what you can do with machine learning, but this example shows that you can't just throw machine learning at a problem and expect good results. And it shows that, at least for now, machine learning isn't going to make humans obsolete.
alpaca128 5y ago
It showed that machine learning is useless if the input format doesn't match the problem. The result would probably be better if the problem was approached more on a vector graphics-based level rather than throwing a bunch of pixel clusters at the program and expecting it to figure out the underlying shapes by itself. I mean, children in school don't learn to write by copying printed letters out of a book either, instead they're shown the individual strokes and their direction step by step.
- miloignis 5y ago
  His first attempt was vector based, the blobs of pixels / signed distance fields were his second attempt that worked better.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mcphage 5y ago
Yes but on the other hand, he could play chess with them, so it's impossible to say if it's bad or not
gwern 5y ago
Incidentally, to update my comment there, I asked someone who had a font GAN and he mentioned he'd already found uppercase/lowercase latent directions which can automatically "more-uppercase" letters. It's not that this is a 'terrible problem' - it's borderline trivial. (I've seen highschoolers do much more impressive GAN things.) He just didn't do it even remotely right, is all.
- Recursing 5y ago
  Do you happen to have a link with some examples? After seeing tom7 video I'm now terribly curious on what a 'more uppercase' font would look like
  - gwern 5y ago
    He didn't provide any samples, sorry.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  > He just didn't do it even remotely right, is all. To be fair, this was for April's fools, he probably did not intend to get something actually usable (as far as upperercase letters can be usable) .
  - gwern 5y ago
    He put in way more work than would've been necessary to get StyleGAN or CLIP to do a vastly better job, is my point, because he used totally the wrong tools and approach. (And he could put in vastly more work, and it still wouldn't work that way either; the level of effort one would or would not spend on a SIGBOVIK paper is just irrelevant when his approach is doomed from the beginning.)
tripzilch 5y ago
Almost if it's emulating the wrong kind of stroke ...

pcl 5y ago

I’d love to see what his trained lower function makes of these.

melllvar 5y ago

If all research papers were written in this style, I'd read a lot more of them. > I trained the network using a home-grown (why??) GPUbased package that I wrote for Red i removal with artificial retina networks [16]—an example of “lowercase i artificial intelligence”—and have improved as I repurposed it for other projects, such as Color- and piece-blind chess [17]. It is “tried and true” in the sense that “every time I tried using it, I truly wanted to throw my computer out the window, and retire to a hermitage in the glade whenceforth I shall nevermore be haunted by a model which has overnight become a sea of infs and NaNs.”