5 ms·

dang banned anyone with an original opinion from the right under the guise of civility

by shard972 5y ago

unanswered 5y ago
And yet he hardly needs to given that any such opinions will be flagkilled in seconds. It's pure spite.
- PurpleFoxy 5y ago
  This is why I view HN via a telegram bot that posts the top links. Let’s me see what was flagged.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    You can also turn on "showdead" in your profile settings. I always browse with showdead on.
gcannonkjp 5y ago
Is that why every RMS post gets nuked from orbit no matter the comment count?
- arolihas 5y ago
  RMS?
  - gcannonkjp 5y ago
    Richard M. Stallman
arolihas 5y ago
That’s a little harsh. Politically charged arguments are just not in the spirit of HN in dang’s opinion
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  I agree with the idea of having a space where we aren't constantly culture warring, but you have to bear in mind that if you ban political speech then you still inherently permit status quo political speech. And the status quo here is California liberalism.
  - mlthoughts2018 5y ago
    Posts that masquerade as “legitimate dissenting opinions just not getting a fair shake from the left by golly” but which really seek to undermine structures by which systemic racism can possibly be called out and held accountable for harm (like the framework of microaggressions) deserve to be flagged and shut down. They don’t serve any free speech or intellectual honesty purpose to preserve discourse and the psychological safety to disagree, and they are roundly disingenuous tools for filibustering actual legit discourse and progress. It’s just taking crass tools of hate groups and dressing them up with five dollar words and armchair discussion of academic freedom of expression, when really it’s just hostile noise jamming against progress.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      You have no idea what systemic racism is, or what it means for it to be systemic, or how to solve systemic problems. Most of the social justice arguments I've seen about it also have no idea about how to deal with systemic problems. Just thought I'd address that part. Everything else you wrote is word salad.
      - mlthoughts2018 5y ago
        sounds suspiciously actually like you don’t know what systemic racism is...
        beaconstudios 5y ago
        "no u" isn't a very good comeback. Systemic _anything_ is that thing perpetuated through systemic effects. In the case of racism it's a structural effect that lasts long after the prolonged and intentional oppression of certain minority groups. Things like a lack of generational wealth, de facto segregation, racial profiling in policing and so on. The thing with systemic effects in general is that they're not perpetuated intentionally, but are emergent properties of relationships within a complex system. There are ways to unpick and understand why these problems are occurring and prevent their continuation, but I'm sorry to say that I'm just not seeing that coming from the progressive movement at the moment. I care deeply about systems theory and its applicability in solving some of our pressing social problems, but I'm not seeing its use in social activism. Instead the tactics of corporate D&I seem actively designed to look good while not really doing anything. Same with microaggression and unconscious bias training; all they're going to do is put well meaning people on the defensive when interacting with marginalised people for fear of saying something offensive, and that's not going to help anybody.
dang 5y ago
Ideologues of every flavor say that - they just swap in $hated-object to complain about. The irony is how isomorphic all these enemies are. Plenty of examples at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870, and there are a lot more where those came from.

dang banned anyone with an original opinion from the right under the guise of civility

unanswered 5y ago

And yet he hardly needs to given that any such opinions will be flagkilled in seconds. It's pure spite.

PurpleFoxy 5y ago
This is why I view HN via a telegram bot that posts the top links. Let’s me see what was flagged.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  You can also turn on "showdead" in your profile settings. I always browse with showdead on.

gcannonkjp 5y ago

Is that why every RMS post gets nuked from orbit no matter the comment count?

arolihas 5y ago
RMS?
- gcannonkjp 5y ago
  Richard M. Stallman

arolihas 5y ago

That’s a little harsh. Politically charged arguments are just not in the spirit of HN in dang’s opinion

beaconstudios 5y ago
I agree with the idea of having a space where we aren't constantly culture warring, but you have to bear in mind that if you ban political speech then you still inherently permit status quo political speech. And the status quo here is California liberalism.
- mlthoughts2018 5y ago
  Posts that masquerade as “legitimate dissenting opinions just not getting a fair shake from the left by golly” but which really seek to undermine structures by which systemic racism can possibly be called out and held accountable for harm (like the framework of microaggressions) deserve to be flagged and shut down. They don’t serve any free speech or intellectual honesty purpose to preserve discourse and the psychological safety to disagree, and they are roundly disingenuous tools for filibustering actual legit discourse and progress. It’s just taking crass tools of hate groups and dressing them up with five dollar words and armchair discussion of academic freedom of expression, when really it’s just hostile noise jamming against progress.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    You have no idea what systemic racism is, or what it means for it to be systemic, or how to solve systemic problems. Most of the social justice arguments I've seen about it also have no idea about how to deal with systemic problems. Just thought I'd address that part. Everything else you wrote is word salad.
    - mlthoughts2018 5y ago
      sounds suspiciously actually like you don’t know what systemic racism is...
      - beaconstudios 5y ago
        "no u" isn't a very good comeback. Systemic _anything_ is that thing perpetuated through systemic effects. In the case of racism it's a structural effect that lasts long after the prolonged and intentional oppression of certain minority groups. Things like a lack of generational wealth, de facto segregation, racial profiling in policing and so on. The thing with systemic effects in general is that they're not perpetuated intentionally, but are emergent properties of relationships within a complex system. There are ways to unpick and understand why these problems are occurring and prevent their continuation, but I'm sorry to say that I'm just not seeing that coming from the progressive movement at the moment. I care deeply about systems theory and its applicability in solving some of our pressing social problems, but I'm not seeing its use in social activism. Instead the tactics of corporate D&I seem actively designed to look good while not really doing anything. Same with microaggression and unconscious bias training; all they're going to do is put well meaning people on the defensive when interacting with marginalised people for fear of saying something offensive, and that's not going to help anybody.

dang 5y ago

Ideologues of every flavor say that - they just swap in $hated-object to complain about. The irony is how isomorphic all these enemies are. Plenty of examples at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870, and there are a lot more where those came from.