21 ms·

At what point does attraction cross the line and become fetishization?

ARandomerDude 5y ago
This is intellectual misdirection. Not knowing the precise moment an X becomes a Y does not prove the non-existence of Xs or Ys. For example, when does a small pile of rocks become a big pile of rocks? Regardless of the answer, there are both small rock piles and big rock piles.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  There may however never be an answer because humans will never agree on the veritas of the matter. E.g. the debate on when the small human life becomes a human life worth protecting.
- samus 5y ago
  The meaning of small and big is relative to some context. In the context of porn, almost any word designates a fetish. If it refers to a group of humans, one could call it a stereotype or objectification. In the context of Porn [Rule 34](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34) applies, and it affects everything.
porphyra 5y ago
The fact that machine learning or statistical methods find that the word "asian" is so highly correlated with porn that it is basically synonymous enough to be blocked is a problem.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- alpaca128 5y ago
  That is a problem, but with the algorithm or its flawed application. I don't think it's too far-fetched to expect one of the largest and richest tech companies worldwide to be able to tell with decent accuracy how the word "asian" was used. The sophistication of their blocking method is basically on par with a basic word filter that doesn't even attempt to avoid the Scunthorpe problem. I mean, we're not talking about reaching 99% accuracy or really advanced linguistic detection. When a company sells smart home voice assistants surely they can be expected to tell "asian food" from more lewd content apart. Keep a list of naughty websites, track what web searches regularly return those as result and then target those specific queries. Or throw some Machine Learning at it, might as well put their enthusiastically marketed AI processing unit to use. Accurate content filtering is hard. But completely blocking anything using one of the most common words in the language just because it frequently links to porn sites? Come on.
  - porphyra 5y ago
    Yes, the algorithm is definitely inappropriate and too basic. However let's not overlook that it is a societal problem that a large amount of the US population does not care about Asians at all apart from porn. When there is 100x more searches for "asian hotties" than for "asian history", you can get 99% accuracy just by blacklisting the word "asian".
    - potatoman22 5y ago
      These claims seem pretty far fetched. Do you have any evidence that American's mostly only care about Asians because of porn, or that there are 100x more searches for Asian porn than other Asian topics? Seems pretty unreasonable to me
      - porphyra 5y ago
        The fact that Reddit's search algorithms and Apple's filters find a strong correlation between Asians and porn suggests that to be the case. The 100x was just a rhetorical example.
mc32 5y ago
Does it become a problem if people do cross that line anyway? Say Tiger Woods or OJ who seem to prefer blondes, or Nick Cage and Soros who seem to recently prefer East Asians. Does it matter?
- colinfirthisok 5y ago
  Marrying an Asian person is different from sexually fetishizing Asians as a category, so I don't think Cage or Soros are relevant here.
  - mc32 5y ago
    But we can’t be certain they did not entertain a fetish before their marriages... Question is, does it matter? What if someone likes BBW and fetishizes it, do we care? If they then marry a BBW is it no longer a fetish?
    - colinfirthisok 5y ago
      Personally, I don't care about other people's sexual preferences ans I don't see why anyone should. The one argument you can make against fetishizing a group of people is that it's reducing members of that group to fetish objects. So if you're an Asian woman trying to date seriously, you'll get a bunch of white men who only care you're Asian and nothing else. I don't know how much of an issue that is in practice (and I'm sure it's different in diff parts of the world).
      - mc32 5y ago
        Hang on, presumably you're now framing this as a US thing. How do we know the demand in the US comes disproportionately from white men, is that in the stats[1]? OKCupid seems to tell a diff story. [1]https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/howyourraceaffectsthemessagesyouget.html https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/howyourraceaff...

This is intellectual misdirection. Not knowing the precise moment an X becomes a Y does not prove the non-existence of Xs or Ys. For example, when does a small pile of rocks become a big pile of rocks? Regardless of the answer, there are both small rock piles and big rock piles.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
There may however never be an answer because humans will never agree on the veritas of the matter. E.g. the debate on when the small human life becomes a human life worth protecting.
samus 5y ago
The meaning of small and big is relative to some context. In the context of porn, almost any word designates a fetish. If it refers to a group of humans, one could call it a stereotype or objectification. In the context of Porn [Rule 34](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34) applies, and it affects everything.

porphyra 5y ago

The fact that machine learning or statistical methods find that the word "asian" is so highly correlated with porn that it is basically synonymous enough to be blocked is a problem.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
alpaca128 5y ago
That is a problem, but with the algorithm or its flawed application. I don't think it's too far-fetched to expect one of the largest and richest tech companies worldwide to be able to tell with decent accuracy how the word "asian" was used. The sophistication of their blocking method is basically on par with a basic word filter that doesn't even attempt to avoid the Scunthorpe problem. I mean, we're not talking about reaching 99% accuracy or really advanced linguistic detection. When a company sells smart home voice assistants surely they can be expected to tell "asian food" from more lewd content apart. Keep a list of naughty websites, track what web searches regularly return those as result and then target those specific queries. Or throw some Machine Learning at it, might as well put their enthusiastically marketed AI processing unit to use. Accurate content filtering is hard. But completely blocking anything using one of the most common words in the language just because it frequently links to porn sites? Come on.
- porphyra 5y ago
  Yes, the algorithm is definitely inappropriate and too basic. However let's not overlook that it is a societal problem that a large amount of the US population does not care about Asians at all apart from porn. When there is 100x more searches for "asian hotties" than for "asian history", you can get 99% accuracy just by blacklisting the word "asian".
  - potatoman22 5y ago
    These claims seem pretty far fetched. Do you have any evidence that American's mostly only care about Asians because of porn, or that there are 100x more searches for Asian porn than other Asian topics? Seems pretty unreasonable to me
    - porphyra 5y ago
      The fact that Reddit's search algorithms and Apple's filters find a strong correlation between Asians and porn suggests that to be the case. The 100x was just a rhetorical example.

mc32 5y ago

Does it become a problem if people do cross that line anyway? Say Tiger Woods or OJ who seem to prefer blondes, or Nick Cage and Soros who seem to recently prefer East Asians. Does it matter?

colinfirthisok 5y ago
Marrying an Asian person is different from sexually fetishizing Asians as a category, so I don't think Cage or Soros are relevant here.
- mc32 5y ago
  But we can’t be certain they did not entertain a fetish before their marriages... Question is, does it matter? What if someone likes BBW and fetishizes it, do we care? If they then marry a BBW is it no longer a fetish?
  - colinfirthisok 5y ago
    Personally, I don't care about other people's sexual preferences ans I don't see why anyone should. The one argument you can make against fetishizing a group of people is that it's reducing members of that group to fetish objects. So if you're an Asian woman trying to date seriously, you'll get a bunch of white men who only care you're Asian and nothing else. I don't know how much of an issue that is in practice (and I'm sure it's different in diff parts of the world).
    - mc32 5y ago
      Hang on, presumably you're now framing this as a US thing. How do we know the demand in the US comes disproportionately from white men, is that in the stats[1]? OKCupid seems to tell a diff story. [1]https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/howyourraceaffectsthemessagesyouget.html https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/howyourraceaff...