5 ms·

I read statistics where 40% of young people do not start family, do not date, and basically withdraw from society. In interviews they blame it on long working h

I read statistics where 40% of young people do not start family, do not date, and basically withdraw from society. In interviews they blame it on long working hours and rigid rules in society in general. So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional.

oreally 5y ago
> So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional. You do realize this is a pretty condescending and closed-minded statement to make no? It's been said that any developing country going through accelerated economic improvement will have their birth rates reduced by quite a bit. That doesn't make it their society any less functional than say the NRA vs mass shootings, or political gridlocks between parties. And last I heard Japan was opening up to foreign sources of labour. They are slowly changing their minds and adapting.
- keenreed 5y ago
  In west birth rate declines because people have more options and want to enjoy life. That was not my experience in Japan. They have rigid culture of corporations, education, hard labor and over achievement. Some people just do not like that. There is no communication, because society does not like conflict! US politics is other extreme, there is no communication, because society loves conflict! It will get started whenever and wherever possible.
atoav 5y ago
From a european perspective I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian than Japan. As of now I'd rather live in Japan than the US.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  > I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian What you're seeing in the US MSM is nascent Marxism. Half the population didn't vote for it, and the other half will be getting a rude awakening in the next year or so when utopia doesn't arrive (ie. no student loan forgiveness.)
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  Please expand. Japan is much, much poorer. The work environment is awful in at least two different ways, dualisation and insane levels of presenteeism. It’s quite sexist by European or US standards. What makes Japan look good?
  - rualca 5y ago
    The US's appalling lack of basic social safety nets, specially regarding healthcare, coupled with its poverty rate (over twice of Brazil's) and violence epidemic don't make it a shining beacon of a functioning society. Just because STEM graduates in the US can aspire to live in a comfort bubble due to their access to a cushy job, that does not make it an example of a well-functioning society by no means. It makes absolutely no sense to claim that a country has a well-functioning society if it happens to have a hand full of ultra-rich billionaires while the whole population suffers to barely make ends meet, let alone have a shot at a decent life.
    - barry-cotter 5y ago
      > It makes absolutely no sense to claim that a country has a well-functioning society if it happens to have a hand full of ultra-rich billionaires while the whole population suffers to barely make ends meet, let alone have a shot at a decent life. The US is much, much richer than any remotely comparable entity. Americans do not live the lives of grinding poverty you imagine. The only country or region that consumes more per household is Hong Kong[1]. A comfortable life in the US is available to much, much more of the population than STEM graduates as well. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household...
      - rualca 5y ago
        > The US is much, much richer than any remotely comparable entity. The US is 5th in the ranking of median income adjusted to PPP. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income > Americans do not live the lives of grinding poverty you imagine. Some people in the US might live well-off, but more than 10% of its population struggles below the official poverty rate. https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-270.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-27... Over 40% of the US population isn't even capable of supporting an emergency 400$ expense. https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846 https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-em... I suggest you try to take a look outside your bubble to learn how a high percentage of the US population struggles with poverty on a good day.
- unishark 5y ago
  I've been to Japan and it's a wonderful place with many benefits. Very low crime, polite people, etc. The language is the only real problem. The US, though, is vastly more heterogeneous. There are aspects that are far worse and aspects that are far better. And you can choose. There are infamous high-crime neighborhoods with gang problems; you don't have to live in them. Meanwhile want a job making very good money and with flexible hours and a boss that treats you like an equal? non-existent in Japan.
- johnnycerberus 5y ago
  Why would you give up on freedom and live in a society as rigid (not in a derogatory sense) as Japan's? I'm also European, but I would rather live in US than in Japan. I believe opinions on US differ in Europe, you should have said that it's your personal opinion, if you dislike US that doesn't mean that it has any correlation with the fact thay you are European.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > Why would you give up on freedom Not OP, but I would guess the simplest formula is to total up (Heath care - gun violence). i.e. the more likely you are to have health care for whatever happens to you, and the less likely you are to get shot, the better. I agree with William Gibson: "People who feel safer with a gun than with guaranteed medical insurance don't yet have a fully adult concept of scary." - https://twitter.com/greatdismal/status/385249887891111936 https://twitter.com/greatdismal/status/385249887891111936 It's a case of what exactly you view as "Freedom". Are medical bankruptcies freedom? YMMV, you are welcome to choose otherwise. But I put it to you that this costs vs. benefits is a valid, consistent and informed point of view. If you're asking "Why would you?", then that's why.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - johnnycerberus 5y ago
      Freedom does not translate into gun ownership. That's a very leftist/right-wing thing to say. Seems like people have been hardwired by the media to only think about America in terms of gun violence. When a Yakuza mobster terrorizes a small business in Kyoto, I wonder how a guaranteed medical insurance will help then. Don't forget that Japan is the country with the highest mob involvement in the legitimate economy. If the US gov would shake hands with the Irish/Italian mafia to keep the crime rate low, we would call it a feudal alliance but if Japanese government does systematic coverups, we just call them EFFICIENT.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
- zhdc1 5y ago
  These sort of comparisons should always be crouched in specifics. The US is a country, while Europe is either a continent or an intranational union, depending on what you're talking about. Would the average person rather live in, say, Belarus or Nebraska?
- enkid 5y ago
  Do you have any personal experience or data to back this up, or is this just based on your perceptions?
  - atoav 5y ago
    It is just my perception, but I didn't claim anything more.
Tade0 5y ago
Coming from a country where, comparing to Japan: -Suicide rates are roughly the same. -Fertility rate was actually lower for a time - currently slightly higher. -People work considerably more hours per annum. -Average apartment sizes are lower. I take such statistics with a grain of salt. I think that currently they aren't significantly different in this regard than the rest of the developed world. My anecdata from southern and eastern Europe says that things like stable employment and housing are hard to come by among the Ys and Zs and these are both major hurdles towards starting a family.

oreally 5y ago

> So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional. You do realize this is a pretty condescending and closed-minded statement to make no? It's been said that any developing country going through accelerated economic improvement will have their birth rates reduced by quite a bit. That doesn't make it their society any less functional than say the NRA vs mass shootings, or political gridlocks between parties. And last I heard Japan was opening up to foreign sources of labour. They are slowly changing their minds and adapting.

keenreed 5y ago
In west birth rate declines because people have more options and want to enjoy life. That was not my experience in Japan. They have rigid culture of corporations, education, hard labor and over achievement. Some people just do not like that. There is no communication, because society does not like conflict! US politics is other extreme, there is no communication, because society loves conflict! It will get started whenever and wherever possible.

atoav 5y ago

From a european perspective I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian than Japan. As of now I'd rather live in Japan than the US.

redis_mlc 5y ago
> I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian What you're seeing in the US MSM is nascent Marxism. Half the population didn't vote for it, and the other half will be getting a rude awakening in the next year or so when utopia doesn't arrive (ie. no student loan forgiveness.)
barry-cotter 5y ago
Please expand. Japan is much, much poorer. The work environment is awful in at least two different ways, dualisation and insane levels of presenteeism. It’s quite sexist by European or US standards. What makes Japan look good?
- rualca 5y ago
  The US's appalling lack of basic social safety nets, specially regarding healthcare, coupled with its poverty rate (over twice of Brazil's) and violence epidemic don't make it a shining beacon of a functioning society. Just because STEM graduates in the US can aspire to live in a comfort bubble due to their access to a cushy job, that does not make it an example of a well-functioning society by no means. It makes absolutely no sense to claim that a country has a well-functioning society if it happens to have a hand full of ultra-rich billionaires while the whole population suffers to barely make ends meet, let alone have a shot at a decent life.
  - barry-cotter 5y ago
    > It makes absolutely no sense to claim that a country has a well-functioning society if it happens to have a hand full of ultra-rich billionaires while the whole population suffers to barely make ends meet, let alone have a shot at a decent life. The US is much, much richer than any remotely comparable entity. Americans do not live the lives of grinding poverty you imagine. The only country or region that consumes more per household is Hong Kong[1]. A comfortable life in the US is available to much, much more of the population than STEM graduates as well. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household...
    - rualca 5y ago
      > The US is much, much richer than any remotely comparable entity. The US is 5th in the ranking of median income adjusted to PPP. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income > Americans do not live the lives of grinding poverty you imagine. Some people in the US might live well-off, but more than 10% of its population struggles below the official poverty rate. https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-270.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-27... Over 40% of the US population isn't even capable of supporting an emergency 400$ expense. https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846 https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-em... I suggest you try to take a look outside your bubble to learn how a high percentage of the US population struggles with poverty on a good day.
unishark 5y ago
I've been to Japan and it's a wonderful place with many benefits. Very low crime, polite people, etc. The language is the only real problem. The US, though, is vastly more heterogeneous. There are aspects that are far worse and aspects that are far better. And you can choose. There are infamous high-crime neighborhoods with gang problems; you don't have to live in them. Meanwhile want a job making very good money and with flexible hours and a boss that treats you like an equal? non-existent in Japan.
johnnycerberus 5y ago
Why would you give up on freedom and live in a society as rigid (not in a derogatory sense) as Japan's? I'm also European, but I would rather live in US than in Japan. I believe opinions on US differ in Europe, you should have said that it's your personal opinion, if you dislike US that doesn't mean that it has any correlation with the fact thay you are European.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > Why would you give up on freedom Not OP, but I would guess the simplest formula is to total up (Heath care - gun violence). i.e. the more likely you are to have health care for whatever happens to you, and the less likely you are to get shot, the better. I agree with William Gibson: "People who feel safer with a gun than with guaranteed medical insurance don't yet have a fully adult concept of scary." - https://twitter.com/greatdismal/status/385249887891111936 https://twitter.com/greatdismal/status/385249887891111936 It's a case of what exactly you view as "Freedom". Are medical bankruptcies freedom? YMMV, you are welcome to choose otherwise. But I put it to you that this costs vs. benefits is a valid, consistent and informed point of view. If you're asking "Why would you?", then that's why.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - johnnycerberus 5y ago
    Freedom does not translate into gun ownership. That's a very leftist/right-wing thing to say. Seems like people have been hardwired by the media to only think about America in terms of gun violence. When a Yakuza mobster terrorizes a small business in Kyoto, I wonder how a guaranteed medical insurance will help then. Don't forget that Japan is the country with the highest mob involvement in the legitimate economy. If the US gov would shake hands with the Irish/Italian mafia to keep the crime rate low, we would call it a feudal alliance but if Japanese government does systematic coverups, we just call them EFFICIENT.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
zhdc1 5y ago
These sort of comparisons should always be crouched in specifics. The US is a country, while Europe is either a continent or an intranational union, depending on what you're talking about. Would the average person rather live in, say, Belarus or Nebraska?
enkid 5y ago
Do you have any personal experience or data to back this up, or is this just based on your perceptions?
- atoav 5y ago
  It is just my perception, but I didn't claim anything more.

Tade0 5y ago

Coming from a country where, comparing to Japan: -Suicide rates are roughly the same. -Fertility rate was actually lower for a time - currently slightly higher. -People work considerably more hours per annum. -Average apartment sizes are lower. I take such statistics with a grain of salt. I think that currently they aren't significantly different in this regard than the rest of the developed world. My anecdata from southern and eastern Europe says that things like stable employment and housing are hard to come by among the Ys and Zs and these are both major hurdles towards starting a family.