5 ms·

See https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ and the counter-letter https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ https://rms-support-lette

by fen4o 5y ago

See https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ and the counter-letter https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ https://rms-support-letter.github.io/

risky_opinions 5y ago
I could see companies starting to screen applicants using these lists. Different companies would choose which list to use according to their own politics and culture. Totally hypothetical: Coinbase and Google will probably turn rms-open-letter into a denylist. Twitter will do the opposite. This is all conjecture, but I could see it happening. It's why I feel I shouldn't sign.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  One list is full of people who have achieved big things, and are in positions of power. The other is full of throwaway and inactive github accounts.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    which isn't particularly surprising if people are worried about getting cancelled. (FWIW I haven't signed either, and don't know enough about RMS' actions to commit to a perspective).
- twic 5y ago
  There's already a script to block people on GitHub based on signing one of the letters, written by an infosec furry (but i repeat myself): https://twitter.com/kyhwana/status/1375651591672324096 https://twitter.com/kyhwana/status/1375651591672324096
secondcoming 5y ago
I know it's impossible but it would be very interesting to see how the participants in each list break down by $IDENTITY_GROUP. Edit: it seems some people are not interested in this data
bitwize 5y ago
One is signed by the directors of major open-source projects and initiatives. The other is mainly signed by Russian bots.
- yellowapple 5y ago
  That doesn't seem like a fair characterization. Yeah, a lot of the names do look Slavic, but what makes you believe they're bots?
- e3b0c44298 5y ago
  The fact that the Twitter Khmer Rouge are currently making lists of people signing the Stallman support letter might help explain why only Russians, safe from American wokeness and cancel culture, are willing to sign that letter.
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    I understand the point but Khmer Rouge?
- willeh 5y ago
  I hope that I'm wrong here and there is evidence of actual bots, but as far as I can tell you're making this judgement based on the fact the people signing the RMS support letter have Russian sounding names. First off, yes I don't doubt that the totalitarian oppressive and oppressive governments are using this type of technique, in fact they are probably using it a lot because it is highly effective. However, it seems exceedingly unlikely that they have any interest in a spat in an, on the whole, insignificant professional organization. I think it is worth reevaluating your opinion, as understanding the other side of an argument is useful and helps us understand the world better. Generalising, a bit in my experience Russians tend to be slightly technocratic valuing pragmatism over ideology, which seems natural considering that it was beaten out of them by a series of absolutist despots. Still their opinions are valid even if most people in Europe and the US, no matter their political beliefs, will consider RMS to have perjured himself as an ideological leader to the extent that trust can not be mended, and consequently must resign.
Glavnokoman 5y ago
Thanks for the links! And I guess the rms-support is getting yet another "russian bot" signature.
- mpol 5y ago
  I'm not a Russian bot and yes, I did sign the support letter.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  2 hours and this still isn't grey? What the f*ck is your deal HN.

by fen4o 5y ago

See https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ and the counter-letter https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ https://rms-support-letter.github.io/

risky_opinions 5y ago

I could see companies starting to screen applicants using these lists. Different companies would choose which list to use according to their own politics and culture. Totally hypothetical: Coinbase and Google will probably turn rms-open-letter into a denylist. Twitter will do the opposite. This is all conjecture, but I could see it happening. It's why I feel I shouldn't sign.

user-the-name 5y ago
One list is full of people who have achieved big things, and are in positions of power. The other is full of throwaway and inactive github accounts.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  which isn't particularly surprising if people are worried about getting cancelled. (FWIW I haven't signed either, and don't know enough about RMS' actions to commit to a perspective).
twic 5y ago
There's already a script to block people on GitHub based on signing one of the letters, written by an infosec furry (but i repeat myself): https://twitter.com/kyhwana/status/1375651591672324096 https://twitter.com/kyhwana/status/1375651591672324096

secondcoming 5y ago

I know it's impossible but it would be very interesting to see how the participants in each list break down by $IDENTITY_GROUP. Edit: it seems some people are not interested in this data

bitwize 5y ago

One is signed by the directors of major open-source projects and initiatives. The other is mainly signed by Russian bots.

yellowapple 5y ago
That doesn't seem like a fair characterization. Yeah, a lot of the names do look Slavic, but what makes you believe they're bots?
e3b0c44298 5y ago
The fact that the Twitter Khmer Rouge are currently making lists of people signing the Stallman support letter might help explain why only Russians, safe from American wokeness and cancel culture, are willing to sign that letter.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  I understand the point but Khmer Rouge?
willeh 5y ago
I hope that I'm wrong here and there is evidence of actual bots, but as far as I can tell you're making this judgement based on the fact the people signing the RMS support letter have Russian sounding names. First off, yes I don't doubt that the totalitarian oppressive and oppressive governments are using this type of technique, in fact they are probably using it a lot because it is highly effective. However, it seems exceedingly unlikely that they have any interest in a spat in an, on the whole, insignificant professional organization. I think it is worth reevaluating your opinion, as understanding the other side of an argument is useful and helps us understand the world better. Generalising, a bit in my experience Russians tend to be slightly technocratic valuing pragmatism over ideology, which seems natural considering that it was beaten out of them by a series of absolutist despots. Still their opinions are valid even if most people in Europe and the US, no matter their political beliefs, will consider RMS to have perjured himself as an ideological leader to the extent that trust can not be mended, and consequently must resign.

Glavnokoman 5y ago

Thanks for the links! And I guess the rms-support is getting yet another "russian bot" signature.

mpol 5y ago
I'm not a Russian bot and yes, I did sign the support letter.
mandmandam 5y ago
2 hours and this still isn't grey? What the f*ck is your deal HN.