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Richard Stallmann has an interesting piece on FLOSS and FOSS definition, containing this: > A researcher studying practices and methods used by developers in t

Richard Stallmann has an interesting piece on FLOSS and FOSS definition, containing this: > A researcher studying practices and methods used by developers in the free software community decided that these questions were independent of the developers' political views, so he used the term “FLOSS,” Unfortunately he doesn't name that researcher, whom he is attributing FLOSS to. Anyone knows? According to Stallmann "FLOSS" is the most inclusive term including open source with a non-free license though: > Thus, if you want to be neutral between free software and open source, and clear about them, the way to achieve that is to say “FLOSS,” not “FOSS.” So and I'm suprised by that, while L stands for libre according to Stallman, the acronym FLOSS is a actually a more liberal term because it is neutral to whether the software in question free or only open source. [0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/floss-and-foss.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/floss-and-foss.en.html

faho 5y ago
"Open source with a non-free license" essentially doesn't exist. The opensource definition [0] and free software definition [1] are similar enough in outcome (if not intent) that such a thing is basically impossible. Last time I looked the only difference between the OSI's and FSF's lists of acceptable licenses was the OpenWatcom license, which requires you to release the source even when you just deploy it privately. This was a mistake on part of the OSI and should not have been accepted. At least Debian, Fedora and the FSF consider it to be unacceptable. [0] https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
- hamoid 5y ago
  Unreal Engine? If I got it right you get the source but not the permission to redistribute it.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    This is not "open source" as in the definition above. It's "source available".
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Isn’t something like the MIT License open source but not “free software” in the rms sense because it does not encumber people who build on it to in turn produce free software themselves? The open source page also says “ The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium must be open-source software.” which would seem to disqualify the GPL.
  - Ap777 5y ago
    Is free software really free if it encumbers people who build upon it to conform to its ideals? I really think copyleft being free is a stretch people make because of what an uphill battle free software has. I mean peep the name 'copyleft'
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      It is quite easy for every side in a debate to convince themselves they’re on the side of “freedom” by giving different weights to various positive and negative freedoms, so I don’t consider this is a very useful line of inquiry.
  - sidpatil 5y ago
    > Isn’t something like the MIT License open source but not “free software” in the rms sense because it does not encumber people who build on it to in turn produce free software themselves? No. The FSF considers the MIT license to be a Free software license compatible with the GPL. [1] > The open source page also says “ The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium must be open-source software.” which would seem to disqualify the GPL. Section 5 of GPLv3 ("Conveying Modified Source Versions.") contains the following text: 'A compilation of a covered work with other separate and independent works, which are not by their nature extensions of the covered work, and which are not combined with it such as to form a larger program, in or on a volume of a storage or distribution medium, is called an “aggregate” if the compilation and its resulting copyright are not used to limit the access or legal rights of the compilation's users beyond what the individual works permit. Inclusion of a covered work in an aggregate does not cause this License to apply to the other parts of the aggregate.' IANAL, but to me, that means the license doesn't insist on all other software on the same medium being licensed under the GPL. [1] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#X11License https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#X11License

faho 5y ago

"Open source with a non-free license" essentially doesn't exist. The opensource definition [0] and free software definition [1] are similar enough in outcome (if not intent) that such a thing is basically impossible. Last time I looked the only difference between the OSI's and FSF's lists of acceptable licenses was the OpenWatcom license, which requires you to release the source even when you just deploy it privately. This was a mistake on part of the OSI and should not have been accepted. At least Debian, Fedora and the FSF consider it to be unacceptable. [0] https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

hamoid 5y ago
Unreal Engine? If I got it right you get the source but not the permission to redistribute it.
- fsflover 5y ago
  This is not "open source" as in the definition above. It's "source available".
emodendroket 5y ago
Isn’t something like the MIT License open source but not “free software” in the rms sense because it does not encumber people who build on it to in turn produce free software themselves? The open source page also says “ The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium must be open-source software.” which would seem to disqualify the GPL.
- Ap777 5y ago
  Is free software really free if it encumbers people who build upon it to conform to its ideals? I really think copyleft being free is a stretch people make because of what an uphill battle free software has. I mean peep the name 'copyleft'
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    It is quite easy for every side in a debate to convince themselves they’re on the side of “freedom” by giving different weights to various positive and negative freedoms, so I don’t consider this is a very useful line of inquiry.
- sidpatil 5y ago
  > Isn’t something like the MIT License open source but not “free software” in the rms sense because it does not encumber people who build on it to in turn produce free software themselves? No. The FSF considers the MIT license to be a Free software license compatible with the GPL. [1] > The open source page also says “ The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium must be open-source software.” which would seem to disqualify the GPL. Section 5 of GPLv3 ("Conveying Modified Source Versions.") contains the following text: 'A compilation of a covered work with other separate and independent works, which are not by their nature extensions of the covered work, and which are not combined with it such as to form a larger program, in or on a volume of a storage or distribution medium, is called an “aggregate” if the compilation and its resulting copyright are not used to limit the access or legal rights of the compilation's users beyond what the individual works permit. Inclusion of a covered work in an aggregate does not cause this License to apply to the other parts of the aggregate.' IANAL, but to me, that means the license doesn't insist on all other software on the same medium being licensed under the GPL. [1] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#X11License https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#X11License