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Because the alternative is to starve? You can take advantage of people when they’re in dire straits. That’s not indicative of some greater truth about the pric

Because the alternative is to starve? You can take advantage of people when they’re in dire straits. That’s not indicative of some greater truth about the price of labor but a fact of exploitation.

Chris2048 6y ago
So someone offers a job at a poor rate, and it's "exploitation". Then what are you and me, who didn't even offer a rate? If they would've literally starved without the offer, it literally saved their life. If a persons situation is not made worse by a job offer, then what's the problem? They would've still been worse off without it.
- JulianTapales 6y ago
  Just because they would be better off with it doesn’t mean it’s not exploitative. The problem is the lack of non exploitative alternatives. You can argue a life of exploitation is better than starving to death but I’d say even that is up for debate.
nickpp 6y ago
No, the alternative is another job.
- pietrovismara 6y ago
  No. This is a blatant lie that keeps being repeated without thought. The reason people work at amazon warehouses is because they don't have other choice. For many there simply are no other jobs that pay or treat you better.
  - nickpp 6y ago
    Then the alternative was better education and more focus during one's formative years. It's not my fault the kids skipping class, having fun and making jokes during teacher's lessons are now paid less than me. Society offers plenty of opportunities but not to people who did noting to prepare themselves to take advantage of them.
    - pietrovismara 6y ago
      If it really is just a matter of the effort one puts into education, then answer this. If everyone studied with the same exact amount of effort, would we have a world without waitresses, warehouse workers, low wage jobs? Obviously not. This society relies entirely on the fact that a good portion of the population can be blackmailed into doing the bad jobs, while the other small portion enjoys the fruits. If nobody could be forced to take shitty jobs, how would most of the current industries exist?
      - nickpp 6y ago
        The fewer people interested in taking those "shitty jobs", the more they would get paid. Then the jobs would cease to be shitty. This is what we should push for, not artificially and undeservedly reward those jobs more and thus trap ever more people into them. My grandmother was illiterate. That condemned her to a hard life of struggle and hard work. But she stayed on my father's ass to study. My father stayed on my ass and I am staying on my children's. The lesson was so strong, three generations are benefiting.
        pietrovismara 6y ago
        I fully agree that education is fundamental for everyone to have, but not simply to allow everyone to have a good job. Just because it would make society so much better for everyone. For this reason I'm also convinced that every single kid should have access to the same high quality education, independently from how much their family pushes them to it. I'm also convinced that people should have the chance to get back on studies at a later point in life, because it's a delusion to think that every kid will understand the need for education in their teenage years.
        nickpp 6y ago
        You are forgetting defaults and motivations in humans. By default, my kids would spend all day playing Minecraft. They do not have the motivation to do anything else. I have to stay on their ass and push them to study. I am motivated to do that because I know how crappy low-level jobs are (I had one). Otherwise my default would be to let them do whatever they want. I love them! A society which removes the motivation for its members to better themselves is a failed society.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

Chris2048 6y ago

So someone offers a job at a poor rate, and it's "exploitation". Then what are you and me, who didn't even offer a rate? If they would've literally starved without the offer, it literally saved their life. If a persons situation is not made worse by a job offer, then what's the problem? They would've still been worse off without it.

JulianTapales 6y ago
Just because they would be better off with it doesn’t mean it’s not exploitative. The problem is the lack of non exploitative alternatives. You can argue a life of exploitation is better than starving to death but I’d say even that is up for debate.

nickpp 6y ago

No, the alternative is another job.

pietrovismara 6y ago
No. This is a blatant lie that keeps being repeated without thought. The reason people work at amazon warehouses is because they don't have other choice. For many there simply are no other jobs that pay or treat you better.
- nickpp 6y ago
  Then the alternative was better education and more focus during one's formative years. It's not my fault the kids skipping class, having fun and making jokes during teacher's lessons are now paid less than me. Society offers plenty of opportunities but not to people who did noting to prepare themselves to take advantage of them.
  - pietrovismara 6y ago
    If it really is just a matter of the effort one puts into education, then answer this. If everyone studied with the same exact amount of effort, would we have a world without waitresses, warehouse workers, low wage jobs? Obviously not. This society relies entirely on the fact that a good portion of the population can be blackmailed into doing the bad jobs, while the other small portion enjoys the fruits. If nobody could be forced to take shitty jobs, how would most of the current industries exist?
    - nickpp 6y ago
      The fewer people interested in taking those "shitty jobs", the more they would get paid. Then the jobs would cease to be shitty. This is what we should push for, not artificially and undeservedly reward those jobs more and thus trap ever more people into them. My grandmother was illiterate. That condemned her to a hard life of struggle and hard work. But she stayed on my father's ass to study. My father stayed on my ass and I am staying on my children's. The lesson was so strong, three generations are benefiting.
      - pietrovismara 6y ago
        I fully agree that education is fundamental for everyone to have, but not simply to allow everyone to have a good job. Just because it would make society so much better for everyone. For this reason I'm also convinced that every single kid should have access to the same high quality education, independently from how much their family pushes them to it. I'm also convinced that people should have the chance to get back on studies at a later point in life, because it's a delusion to think that every kid will understand the need for education in their teenage years.
        nickpp 6y ago
        You are forgetting defaults and motivations in humans. By default, my kids would spend all day playing Minecraft. They do not have the motivation to do anything else. I have to stay on their ass and push them to study. I am motivated to do that because I know how crappy low-level jobs are (I had one). Otherwise my default would be to let them do whatever they want. I love them! A society which removes the motivation for its members to better themselves is a failed society.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]