12 ms·

In my experience, as others pointed out, its a one way street. If we work 6 hours a day instead of 8, we will get fired. But if they make us work 15 hours a day

In my experience, as others pointed out, its a one way street. If we work 6 hours a day instead of 8, we will get fired. But if they make us work 15 hours a day, nothing happens to them. I am a salaried/exempt employee working for a client. My employer charges the client per hour, and theoretically, I am allowed to get paid for the extra hours I work. But my immediate manager won't allow it because the budget is allocated for the year, and if I bill extra hours, there will be a shortage of budget (or at least that's what he tells me). The client manager pushes so much work on to us, entire team is fed up. Last week, we were asked to work from 7 am to 11:30 pm, pretty much non stop. After lunch at 12:30 pm, the only time I got to eat was at 11:30 pm, nearly 11 hours later. From 5 pm, I didn't even get a chance to get up from my seat. I am pretty sure slaves were given breaks to have food. They treat us lower than slaves. Note that this is in addition to the 8-10 hours I have been working for the last 2 weeks (not counting lunch or other breaks).

francis-io 6y ago
I'm sorry for the situation you are in but you allow this to happen. You can vote with your feet and leave. I know its harder for some people, but that's just life. Decisions like this are never easy. If you can't afford to leave then you best be saving all the money you can each month to support you when you do leave. If you can't find another job then you best be training and up skilling to an in demand skill. I'm sorry to be blunt but I hear this same thing all the time, and people just let this happen to them. For what it's worth, I'm a contractor in the UK. I get paid about twice as much a day then a salaried person. I change clients every 3 months to every 2 years. I have 8 months of living expenses in the bank. If a client wants me to do something then fine, but they pay me. I don't get any holiday or benefits, but the extra money makes up for it. Any time off is unpaid, which I feel is how it should be. I had 3 months off at the start of last year when all temp work dried up due to covid, but apart from that, things have been better then ever. Maybe I just have the personality type for this kind of working arrangement, but it seems like a no brainer to me. You come in on a much more equal level with any client or employer. I also think this has the added benefit of forcing interview practice and keeping up to date with marketable skills. I really think it's the anti fragile approach. Please people, take back some contol. Sell your skills at what they are really worth.
- tartoran 6y ago
  Not sure if the OP is in this situation but workers on work visas are often held captive in such situations and is nearly impossible for them to escape. I know a guy who had to go back to India, he could not take it any longer. So leaving is the only escape but even that is not an option sometimes as they get indebted to obtain such positions and need to pay that back before having the option to leave.
  - francis-io 6y ago
    I know that as a fact here in the UK with certain agencies that I will leave Unnamed. I've essentially been told as much by people I've worked with. This is obviously a special case that I don't really have a solution for. I guess this is all part of the greater brain drain from the world to the first movers in the tech space. This will constantly keep home counties from developing when all the skilled workers leave the country.
- diob 6y ago
  This is quite a privileged comment. Please realize that not everyone has the luxury to up and leave. This person might have tons of obligations, such as bills to pay, family to take care of, and depending on their location not much mobility to just "find a new job". It's weird to just discount an entire person's life and pretend there's such an easy solution they're not taking. What's more, it reeks of survivorship bias. There's likely a good chunk of folks who have done what you did but failed (either due to bad luck, or something else). What's more, the price of failure differs for everyone. Some have family to fall back on, others have friends, and others have a societal safety net. Empathy is hard, but please try and think about how your situation is likely not the norm. By all means feel free to give advice, but try to leave out anecdotal assumptions. Strive to be aware that not everyone has the same opportunities or outcomes, even with the same inputs. It sucks, but that's just life, as you said.
  - francis-io 6y ago
    In my first paragraph I mentioned that if it was not possible to make this situation happen then at least not work towards it. Everyone should be able to put 10% of a salary away into savings to work on getting the freedom to do this. If we assume a tech skill set, more and more jobs are becoming fully remote, making location not so much of an issue. As for survivorship bias, I feel like you are somewhat right. I actually got into this type of work due to getting fired, so I was already at a low point with not much to lose. As for empthay, that's exactly what I have and why I made this comment. I'm for the most part totally anonymous here. I don't have many posts or any kind of reputation. I put the time into making the comment because I truly belive that people can benefit from the change in mindset. I have nothing to gain, all I want to do is help people find the kind of freedom from oppressive working situations that I found. We have all had struggles in our career, and some more than others, but the ones that succeed over the long term usually have the ability to self evaluate and look internally, rather than give an excuse why they can't do something.
bradleyjg 6y ago
In my experience, as others pointed out, its a one way street. If we work 6 hours a day instead of 8, we will get fired. But if they make us work 15 hours a day, nothing happens to them. The parallel action is quitting. I can understand not wanting to quit without an alternative, but I assume you’re looking?!?
mavelikara 6y ago
> But my immediate manager won't allow it because the budget is allocated for the year, and if I bill extra hours, there will be a shortage of budget (or at least that's what he tells me). I didn't understand this. Are you talking about budget at your employer, or at your client?
underwater 6y ago
Your immediate manager is supposed to be protect your from that. They're the ones who are hosed when everyone burns out and quits. On the flip side, if people don't quit and you succeed in delivering the project, your client manager will claim the credit. And that level of output becomes the new expectation for your team.
theamk 6y ago
> But my immediate manager won't allow it because the budget is allocated for the year, and if I bill extra hours, there will be a shortage of budget (or at least that's what he tells me). The client manager pushes so much work on to us, entire team is fed up. Last week, we were asked to work from 7 am to 11:30 pm, pretty much non stop. At this point you send email to both managers and ask, "so do you want me to limit myself to 8 hours, or should I work overtime" and have them come to a decision. (A decision might be: "work overtime but lie on your timesheet", in which case you save this email in case you need it for the future wrongful termination lawsuit.)
bigbillheck 6y ago
There's power in a union.

francis-io 6y ago

I'm sorry for the situation you are in but you allow this to happen. You can vote with your feet and leave. I know its harder for some people, but that's just life. Decisions like this are never easy. If you can't afford to leave then you best be saving all the money you can each month to support you when you do leave. If you can't find another job then you best be training and up skilling to an in demand skill. I'm sorry to be blunt but I hear this same thing all the time, and people just let this happen to them. For what it's worth, I'm a contractor in the UK. I get paid about twice as much a day then a salaried person. I change clients every 3 months to every 2 years. I have 8 months of living expenses in the bank. If a client wants me to do something then fine, but they pay me. I don't get any holiday or benefits, but the extra money makes up for it. Any time off is unpaid, which I feel is how it should be. I had 3 months off at the start of last year when all temp work dried up due to covid, but apart from that, things have been better then ever. Maybe I just have the personality type for this kind of working arrangement, but it seems like a no brainer to me. You come in on a much more equal level with any client or employer. I also think this has the added benefit of forcing interview practice and keeping up to date with marketable skills. I really think it's the anti fragile approach. Please people, take back some contol. Sell your skills at what they are really worth.

tartoran 6y ago
Not sure if the OP is in this situation but workers on work visas are often held captive in such situations and is nearly impossible for them to escape. I know a guy who had to go back to India, he could not take it any longer. So leaving is the only escape but even that is not an option sometimes as they get indebted to obtain such positions and need to pay that back before having the option to leave.
- francis-io 6y ago
  I know that as a fact here in the UK with certain agencies that I will leave Unnamed. I've essentially been told as much by people I've worked with. This is obviously a special case that I don't really have a solution for. I guess this is all part of the greater brain drain from the world to the first movers in the tech space. This will constantly keep home counties from developing when all the skilled workers leave the country.
diob 6y ago
This is quite a privileged comment. Please realize that not everyone has the luxury to up and leave. This person might have tons of obligations, such as bills to pay, family to take care of, and depending on their location not much mobility to just "find a new job". It's weird to just discount an entire person's life and pretend there's such an easy solution they're not taking. What's more, it reeks of survivorship bias. There's likely a good chunk of folks who have done what you did but failed (either due to bad luck, or something else). What's more, the price of failure differs for everyone. Some have family to fall back on, others have friends, and others have a societal safety net. Empathy is hard, but please try and think about how your situation is likely not the norm. By all means feel free to give advice, but try to leave out anecdotal assumptions. Strive to be aware that not everyone has the same opportunities or outcomes, even with the same inputs. It sucks, but that's just life, as you said.
- francis-io 6y ago
  In my first paragraph I mentioned that if it was not possible to make this situation happen then at least not work towards it. Everyone should be able to put 10% of a salary away into savings to work on getting the freedom to do this. If we assume a tech skill set, more and more jobs are becoming fully remote, making location not so much of an issue. As for survivorship bias, I feel like you are somewhat right. I actually got into this type of work due to getting fired, so I was already at a low point with not much to lose. As for empthay, that's exactly what I have and why I made this comment. I'm for the most part totally anonymous here. I don't have many posts or any kind of reputation. I put the time into making the comment because I truly belive that people can benefit from the change in mindset. I have nothing to gain, all I want to do is help people find the kind of freedom from oppressive working situations that I found. We have all had struggles in our career, and some more than others, but the ones that succeed over the long term usually have the ability to self evaluate and look internally, rather than give an excuse why they can't do something.

bradleyjg 6y ago

In my experience, as others pointed out, its a one way street. If we work 6 hours a day instead of 8, we will get fired. But if they make us work 15 hours a day, nothing happens to them. The parallel action is quitting. I can understand not wanting to quit without an alternative, but I assume you’re looking?!?

mavelikara 6y ago

underwater 6y ago

Your immediate manager is supposed to be protect your from that. They're the ones who are hosed when everyone burns out and quits. On the flip side, if people don't quit and you succeed in delivering the project, your client manager will claim the credit. And that level of output becomes the new expectation for your team.

theamk 6y ago

> But my immediate manager won't allow it because the budget is allocated for the year, and if I bill extra hours, there will be a shortage of budget (or at least that's what he tells me). The client manager pushes so much work on to us, entire team is fed up. Last week, we were asked to work from 7 am to 11:30 pm, pretty much non stop. At this point you send email to both managers and ask, "so do you want me to limit myself to 8 hours, or should I work overtime" and have them come to a decision. (A decision might be: "work overtime but lie on your timesheet", in which case you save this email in case you need it for the future wrongful termination lawsuit.)

bigbillheck 6y ago

There's power in a union.