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I don't believe Japan is a good example. Having worked for a Japanese company for about 4.5 years I was really wondering how they handle the WFH. Japanese compa

by ipatec 6y ago

I don't believe Japan is a good example. Having worked for a Japanese company for about 4.5 years I was really wondering how they handle the WFH. Japanese companies are very hierarchical and permanent reviews and monitoring are required in order to reach a decision. I can see WFH not being as efficient as office presence.

tpmx 6y ago
Yeah, I think many are aware that Japan has a pretty special work culture, especially when it comes to the importance of butts-in-seats.
manmal 6y ago
Off-topic, maybe you have an answer to this: How do the Japanese work so much? I read that they have naps in the office, but still - I think I would burn out super quick.
- tpmx 6y ago
  No direct experience with working in Japan, but in Taiwan people rested their heads on a pillow on the work desk to nap for an hour after lunch. So essentially shifting some of the sleep time at home towards sleep time at work. Never quite understood the thinking behind that. My hunch is that I'm not understanding "face" properly.
  - manmal 6y ago
    That’s what I was referring to, yes. I heard of a situation during a merger where the Japanese delegation took turns sleeping, while the other delegation was up all day. As a consequence, the Japanese delegation got their way because they had more stamina.
    - brigandish 6y ago
      Sleeping at work is sometimes allowed because it's accepted there is such a chronic lack of sleep generally. If they were taking turns sleeping it means they probably already were overworked and needed a nap. The story sounds like "history is written by the victors" or just more fetishing of Japan.
    - tasogare 6y ago
      No this is different. Lot of Taiwanese companies have the after-lunch rest (source: Taiwanese friends). I never heard as such for Japanese companies.
  - SyzygistSix 6y ago
    I've had many years where a short nap after lunch dramatically increases my productivity.
- BlargMcLarg 6y ago
  Blind guess: they actually are permanently in a state of pseudo burn-out and combat it through various means, a less individualistic mentality and gradually drop their ambition to prevent it from increasing. Also, just in general going at a really slow pace to stay sane.
- GuB-42 6y ago
  > How do the Japanese work so much? Simple answer, they don't. They spend a lot of time at work looking busy, but they don't actually do that much actual work. For me (a lazy Frenchman), Americans are the hardest working people I know in terms of actual productive work.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- brigandish 6y ago
  It's not productive "work", it's desk warming because it's just as important (if not more) to show you're working than do work. Japan is horribly unproductive[1]: > Japan ranks twenty-first for labor productivity among the 36 nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, according to the Japan Productivity Center’s International Comparison of Labor Productivity report. Based on OECD data, the report found that Japan’s per-hour labor productivity in 2018 was $46.8 (equivalent in purchasing power to ¥4,744); this is less than half the $102.3 level in Ireland and roughly 60% the $74.7 level in the United States. The government has raised “work-style reform” as a key task and aimed to lift productivity, but Japan has continued to be dead last among Group of Seven nations since 1970, when survey records were first available. Once I realised that the culture is based on far more on appearance than truth, so many things made sense that hadn't before. [1] https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-labor-productivity-lowest-in-g7.html https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-...
  - pdimitar 6y ago
    I am not saying the following out of malice or bias because I have no vested interest in having any... but my observation on a lot of Asians has been that they'll work extremely hard to project a good image but not do actual good work. I don't blame the workers of course, I blame the leadership. Japan in particular seems just like the countries of the former Soviet Bloc (like mine -- Bulgaria) where good media propaganda is prioritized much more than actually working on the country's economy.
  - missedthecue 6y ago
    I wonder how that is measured. Irish employees don't make unusually good salaries, and their employers don't have unusually high profit margins
    - brigandish 6y ago
      I also wonder. As an aside/anecdote of perhaps dubious quality, I had a mate that worked in the Office of National Statistics in the UK. He said that they'd often come up with figures for things that didn't match expectations, so they'd fudge them in case it caused a fuss. Still, again anecdotally, I can't say that I find Japan a place of particularly efficient work. Long working hours, certainly, but efficiency… not in my experience.
bluepizza 6y ago
Every time any subject contains "Japan", it always devolves into cultural explanations. There are plenty cultures around the planet that are hierarchical, consensus based, or both. It's baffling to me that Japan is always singled out in these situations. If the same news was about any of our neighbours (South Korea, China, Taiwan) the amount of cultural explanations would be much smaller, and the discussion would be much more focused on the fundamental principles of the problem. I understand that we are guilty of furthering this sort of discussion, but it is really frustrating to me.
- uranusjr 6y ago
  I live in Taiwan. News from Japan usually needs accompanying cultural explanations even here. People from Taiwan, China, and South Korea have difficulties understanding the situation even we’re lifelong neighbours. Yes, Japan is that freaking unique.
  - tasogare 6y ago
    Any link to an article that would illustrate that? I’ve been in Taiwan a bunch of times, live in Japan and on the contrary Japan, while having a good image there, is not a single-outed as it is in the West. The cultural gap between Taiwan and Japan is infinitely smaller than between Japan and more remote places. Taiwan was even part of Japan at some point, so while only the most elderly lived it, I really doubt cultural explanations are needed as you claim they are.
  - bluepizza 6y ago
    Uniqueness does not really relate to my point. If coronavirus is contained in South Korea, it is due to smart government, if it is contained in New Zealand, it is due to good policies... but if we are discussing Japan, suddenly we are talking about a "collectivist society" with face masks explanations extrapolating to some daimyo actions 400 years ago. This makes it quite hard to reach the central points of anything that happens here - there's always a random cultural sidetracking. Maybe when a government official is caught lying and apologizes, he is just trying to save himself, and a shame oriented collectivist society is not the central point - a lying politician is.
walshemj 6y ago
And I suspect the tiny nature of most Japanese homes where its very unlikely you will have a spare separate room.

by ipatec 6y ago

tpmx 6y ago

Yeah, I think many are aware that Japan has a pretty special work culture, especially when it comes to the importance of butts-in-seats.

manmal 6y ago

Off-topic, maybe you have an answer to this: How do the Japanese work so much? I read that they have naps in the office, but still - I think I would burn out super quick.

tpmx 6y ago
No direct experience with working in Japan, but in Taiwan people rested their heads on a pillow on the work desk to nap for an hour after lunch. So essentially shifting some of the sleep time at home towards sleep time at work. Never quite understood the thinking behind that. My hunch is that I'm not understanding "face" properly.
- manmal 6y ago
  That’s what I was referring to, yes. I heard of a situation during a merger where the Japanese delegation took turns sleeping, while the other delegation was up all day. As a consequence, the Japanese delegation got their way because they had more stamina.
  - brigandish 6y ago
    Sleeping at work is sometimes allowed because it's accepted there is such a chronic lack of sleep generally. If they were taking turns sleeping it means they probably already were overworked and needed a nap. The story sounds like "history is written by the victors" or just more fetishing of Japan.
  - tasogare 6y ago
    No this is different. Lot of Taiwanese companies have the after-lunch rest (source: Taiwanese friends). I never heard as such for Japanese companies.
- SyzygistSix 6y ago
  I've had many years where a short nap after lunch dramatically increases my productivity.
BlargMcLarg 6y ago
Blind guess: they actually are permanently in a state of pseudo burn-out and combat it through various means, a less individualistic mentality and gradually drop their ambition to prevent it from increasing. Also, just in general going at a really slow pace to stay sane.
GuB-42 6y ago
> How do the Japanese work so much? Simple answer, they don't. They spend a lot of time at work looking busy, but they don't actually do that much actual work. For me (a lazy Frenchman), Americans are the hardest working people I know in terms of actual productive work.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
brigandish 6y ago
It's not productive "work", it's desk warming because it's just as important (if not more) to show you're working than do work. Japan is horribly unproductive[1]: > Japan ranks twenty-first for labor productivity among the 36 nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, according to the Japan Productivity Center’s International Comparison of Labor Productivity report. Based on OECD data, the report found that Japan’s per-hour labor productivity in 2018 was $46.8 (equivalent in purchasing power to ¥4,744); this is less than half the $102.3 level in Ireland and roughly 60% the $74.7 level in the United States. The government has raised “work-style reform” as a key task and aimed to lift productivity, but Japan has continued to be dead last among Group of Seven nations since 1970, when survey records were first available. Once I realised that the culture is based on far more on appearance than truth, so many things made sense that hadn't before. [1] https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-labor-productivity-lowest-in-g7.html https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-...
- pdimitar 6y ago
  I am not saying the following out of malice or bias because I have no vested interest in having any... but my observation on a lot of Asians has been that they'll work extremely hard to project a good image but not do actual good work. I don't blame the workers of course, I blame the leadership. Japan in particular seems just like the countries of the former Soviet Bloc (like mine -- Bulgaria) where good media propaganda is prioritized much more than actually working on the country's economy.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  I wonder how that is measured. Irish employees don't make unusually good salaries, and their employers don't have unusually high profit margins
  - brigandish 6y ago
    I also wonder. As an aside/anecdote of perhaps dubious quality, I had a mate that worked in the Office of National Statistics in the UK. He said that they'd often come up with figures for things that didn't match expectations, so they'd fudge them in case it caused a fuss. Still, again anecdotally, I can't say that I find Japan a place of particularly efficient work. Long working hours, certainly, but efficiency… not in my experience.

bluepizza 6y ago

Every time any subject contains "Japan", it always devolves into cultural explanations. There are plenty cultures around the planet that are hierarchical, consensus based, or both. It's baffling to me that Japan is always singled out in these situations. If the same news was about any of our neighbours (South Korea, China, Taiwan) the amount of cultural explanations would be much smaller, and the discussion would be much more focused on the fundamental principles of the problem. I understand that we are guilty of furthering this sort of discussion, but it is really frustrating to me.

uranusjr 6y ago
I live in Taiwan. News from Japan usually needs accompanying cultural explanations even here. People from Taiwan, China, and South Korea have difficulties understanding the situation even we’re lifelong neighbours. Yes, Japan is that freaking unique.
- tasogare 6y ago
  Any link to an article that would illustrate that? I’ve been in Taiwan a bunch of times, live in Japan and on the contrary Japan, while having a good image there, is not a single-outed as it is in the West. The cultural gap between Taiwan and Japan is infinitely smaller than between Japan and more remote places. Taiwan was even part of Japan at some point, so while only the most elderly lived it, I really doubt cultural explanations are needed as you claim they are.
- bluepizza 6y ago
  Uniqueness does not really relate to my point. If coronavirus is contained in South Korea, it is due to smart government, if it is contained in New Zealand, it is due to good policies... but if we are discussing Japan, suddenly we are talking about a "collectivist society" with face masks explanations extrapolating to some daimyo actions 400 years ago. This makes it quite hard to reach the central points of anything that happens here - there's always a random cultural sidetracking. Maybe when a government official is caught lying and apologizes, he is just trying to save himself, and a shame oriented collectivist society is not the central point - a lying politician is.

walshemj 6y ago

And I suspect the tiny nature of most Japanese homes where its very unlikely you will have a spare separate room.