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Except with Bitcoin, you're now relying on the liquidity of actors like Tether to get your money out, which is even more centralised and less trustworthy, certa

Except with Bitcoin, you're now relying on the liquidity of actors like Tether to get your money out, which is even more centralised and less trustworthy, certainly, than any bank subject to western regulations and backed by our governments guarantees. Congratulations on destroying the environment to make an act of defiance that achieves less than nothing.

matheusmoreira 6y ago
Binance has a BTC/BRL trading pair and peer-to-peer trading. I don't see how I'm depending on tether at all. I agree that centralized exchanges are a single point of failure but they're necessary for the time being. It's always possible to withdraw all assets to local wallets, it just makes trading harder. Cryptocurrency has never been about "cashing out" though. The whole point is to be able to pay for things with the coins themselves, without the need to convert to fiat money. I believe Monero is the only one which will one day achieve this goal. I'm not destroying the environment either. All the energy consumption of bitcoin doesn't add up to even 1% of global consumption. There are far worse offenders here yet somehow people are up in arms about non-fungible tokens. Why? Cryptocurrency is an easy and convenient target compared to entrenched and powerful industries like fossil fuels. Also, "achieves less than nothing" is just factually wrong. By using even the pseudonymous bitcoin you make it that much harder for the government to seize your assets. They can't just order the bank to do it. They'd have to literally seize your computer in order to obtain those coins. Monero raises the bar even higher and changes the balance of power so thoroughly it's subversive.
- codebolt 6y ago
  Just like the stock market was never about cashing out during the 1920s. But that situation can change very fast. In fact, the only reason Bitcoin wasn't wiped out during the last panic in 2017 is because no one was stopping Tether from simply minting out of thin air and propping up the price. The simple fact is that every dollar spent buying a new lambo by some crypto hotshot millionaire has to come from someone else buying their ticket to the carousel. Just like in any Ponzi scheme. There is no creation of value there, just an ever increasing pool of greater fools. And now we even have companies with millions/billions of dollars worth of BTC on their balance sheet. What happens if one of those companies goes to bankruptcy court? Do you think their equity and debt holders won't want those tokens converted to fiat currency as soon as possible? How do you think that happens? If you're truly paranoid about the government seizing your assets (which you have no reason to be unless you're already doing something stupid), you can always buy a precious metal or simply take out cash and keep it buried in your backyard. Also, 1÷ of global emissions is already a huge number. And if Bitcoin should become as widespread as some people claim that number would still need to grow by a vast amount.
  - matheusmoreira 6y ago
    > In fact, the only reason Bitcoin wasn't wiped out during the last panic in 2017 is because no one was stopping Tether from simply minting out of thin air and propping up the price. That wasn't even necessary. It doesn't matter if bitcoin price hits $0. What matters is whether people continue to believe in it. As long as people see value, there will still be value. It doesn't matter how many crashes it experiences. Short term speculators getting liquidated is a good thing. > The simple fact is that every dollar spent buying a new lambo by some crypto hotshot millionaire has to come from someone else buying their ticket to the carousel. Can't sell without buyers. Just like how startups pay people with company stock: cashing out to fiat depends on people believing in the company and buying their shares. All the money evaporates the second people stop believing in it. Doesn't mean it's a Ponzi scheme. > What happens if one of those companies goes to bankruptcy court? They'll sell the coins. If it's a big volume it'll cause a flash market crash because people will notice and panic sell. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. > If you're truly paranoid about the government seizing your assets (which you have no reason to be unless you're already doing something stupid) Ah yes, I'm sure my parents must have been doing stupid criminal stuff when the government seized everyone's bank accounts in a desperate attempt to combat runaway inflation. Everyone in my country absolutely deserved to have their entire life savings stolen. They deserved being left with nothing but $50 in their bank accounts. > you can always buy a precious metal or simply take out cash and keep it buried in your backyard. I can also buy cryptocurrency which is much easier. I have cash too and precious metals. My parents were also smart enough to withdraw all funds from the bank before the government seized everything and it's the only reason my family enjoys some measure of prosperity today. > Also, 1÷ of global emissions is already a huge number. In absolute terms, yes. In relative terms, no. There are far worse polluters out there and attacking cryptocurrency achieves less than nothing until those polluters are regulated. > And if Bitcoin should become as widespread as some people claim that number would still need to grow by a vast amount. By that time the cryptocurrency ecosystem will hopefully have moved on to better less expensive systems.

matheusmoreira 6y ago

Binance has a BTC/BRL trading pair and peer-to-peer trading. I don't see how I'm depending on tether at all. I agree that centralized exchanges are a single point of failure but they're necessary for the time being. It's always possible to withdraw all assets to local wallets, it just makes trading harder. Cryptocurrency has never been about "cashing out" though. The whole point is to be able to pay for things with the coins themselves, without the need to convert to fiat money. I believe Monero is the only one which will one day achieve this goal. I'm not destroying the environment either. All the energy consumption of bitcoin doesn't add up to even 1% of global consumption. There are far worse offenders here yet somehow people are up in arms about non-fungible tokens. Why? Cryptocurrency is an easy and convenient target compared to entrenched and powerful industries like fossil fuels. Also, "achieves less than nothing" is just factually wrong. By using even the pseudonymous bitcoin you make it that much harder for the government to seize your assets. They can't just order the bank to do it. They'd have to literally seize your computer in order to obtain those coins. Monero raises the bar even higher and changes the balance of power so thoroughly it's subversive.

codebolt 6y ago
Just like the stock market was never about cashing out during the 1920s. But that situation can change very fast. In fact, the only reason Bitcoin wasn't wiped out during the last panic in 2017 is because no one was stopping Tether from simply minting out of thin air and propping up the price. The simple fact is that every dollar spent buying a new lambo by some crypto hotshot millionaire has to come from someone else buying their ticket to the carousel. Just like in any Ponzi scheme. There is no creation of value there, just an ever increasing pool of greater fools. And now we even have companies with millions/billions of dollars worth of BTC on their balance sheet. What happens if one of those companies goes to bankruptcy court? Do you think their equity and debt holders won't want those tokens converted to fiat currency as soon as possible? How do you think that happens? If you're truly paranoid about the government seizing your assets (which you have no reason to be unless you're already doing something stupid), you can always buy a precious metal or simply take out cash and keep it buried in your backyard. Also, 1÷ of global emissions is already a huge number. And if Bitcoin should become as widespread as some people claim that number would still need to grow by a vast amount.
- matheusmoreira 6y ago
  > In fact, the only reason Bitcoin wasn't wiped out during the last panic in 2017 is because no one was stopping Tether from simply minting out of thin air and propping up the price. That wasn't even necessary. It doesn't matter if bitcoin price hits $0. What matters is whether people continue to believe in it. As long as people see value, there will still be value. It doesn't matter how many crashes it experiences. Short term speculators getting liquidated is a good thing. > The simple fact is that every dollar spent buying a new lambo by some crypto hotshot millionaire has to come from someone else buying their ticket to the carousel. Can't sell without buyers. Just like how startups pay people with company stock: cashing out to fiat depends on people believing in the company and buying their shares. All the money evaporates the second people stop believing in it. Doesn't mean it's a Ponzi scheme. > What happens if one of those companies goes to bankruptcy court? They'll sell the coins. If it's a big volume it'll cause a flash market crash because people will notice and panic sell. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. > If you're truly paranoid about the government seizing your assets (which you have no reason to be unless you're already doing something stupid) Ah yes, I'm sure my parents must have been doing stupid criminal stuff when the government seized everyone's bank accounts in a desperate attempt to combat runaway inflation. Everyone in my country absolutely deserved to have their entire life savings stolen. They deserved being left with nothing but $50 in their bank accounts. > you can always buy a precious metal or simply take out cash and keep it buried in your backyard. I can also buy cryptocurrency which is much easier. I have cash too and precious metals. My parents were also smart enough to withdraw all funds from the bank before the government seized everything and it's the only reason my family enjoys some measure of prosperity today. > Also, 1÷ of global emissions is already a huge number. In absolute terms, yes. In relative terms, no. There are far worse polluters out there and attacking cryptocurrency achieves less than nothing until those polluters are regulated. > And if Bitcoin should become as widespread as some people claim that number would still need to grow by a vast amount. By that time the cryptocurrency ecosystem will hopefully have moved on to better less expensive systems.