15 ms·

Kids might make your life better, but they probably would have been better off had you stuck to your plan of not having them.

conductr 6y ago
Not existing is better than existing? Suicide rates should be 99% then right, because if you’re not a 1%er it’s not worth living. That said, I do fear my kid will live to see something we’ve made apocalyptic movies about. Hell, we all might.
- tenacious_tuna 6y ago
  I think you're making a leap in OP's reasoning: they didn't say that for _currently existing_ people it's better to not be existing. I suspect the point is more that it will be better for future generations to limit the _size of_ future generations, lest we increase the amount of strain on the climate/energy production/water scarcity/etc. I also think OPs reasoning has more to do with the considerations of inflicting the potentially post-apocalyptic future on those future generations: there is an arguable moral duty to ensure that whatever offspring you have will have a (generally) good life, and that if you aren't reasonably sure of that it's A Bad Thing to have said offspring.
  - conductr 6y ago
    > they didn't say that for _currently existing_ people it's better to not be existing He said the guys kids would be better off if he didn’t have them. And basically said he had them for selfish reasons (kids make your life better) Seems like you’re the one making leaps, I read what was written
- tshaddox 6y ago
  There’s a big difference between never existing, and existing but then dying.
- nescioquid 6y ago
  It is antinatalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism), and an idea to which I'm not unsympathetic. Basically, life is suffering, and from the view of reducing the amount of suffering in the world, it is a good to abstain from bringing more beings into this world to suffer.
2lwxxtj 6y ago
I get the impression that you are not very happy in life.
samr71 6y ago
Such doom and gloom! You really believe the future is gonna be so bad that children would be better off not existing at all? The world has huge issues, sure, but it's still far better to be alive now than any time in human history. The only way the future could be worse is if this idea becomes mainstream and the prophecy self-fulfilling.
- tenacious_tuna 6y ago
  I think this is a rather short-sighted view; The future is not guaranteed to be better, especially not when we have lots of evidence of impending (1) massive climate disruption (2) water shortage (3) political polarization (4) economic imbalance, the list goes on. Saying "the only way" the world gets worse is if we don't have children is to ignore the potential for all of those effects to grow worse. It's certainly possible that we may overcome them and human life will continue on its merry way, but it's very unreasonable to ignore all these difficulties and the psychological effects they can have on new parents.... And on new children. What would your response be to a 9 year old having an existential crisis about the polar bears starving to death because of climate change, and the implications for human civilization, and civilization's apparent apathy towards that? "Don't worry kid, just make sure you have children of your own and everything will work out"?
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    > What would your response be to a 9 year old having an existential crisis about the polar bears starving to death because of climate change, and the implications for human civilization, and civilization's apparent apathy towards that? "Don't worry kid, just make sure you have children of your own and everything will work out"? Speaking as a new parent who did in fact have an existential crisis about this as a child, very very disappointed in both myself and the rest of us.
  - samr71 6y ago
    All of the things you listed are solvable problems, with hundreds of thousands of people working tirelessly to solve them. Fear porn about the impending collapse of everything helps no one, and is the reason why that the 9 year old is having an existential crisis about polar bears at all. Should we worry about these things? Absolutely! But the incessant hysteria is counter productive. Us ceasing having children in a form of civilizational suicide is not a solution.

conductr 6y ago

Not existing is better than existing? Suicide rates should be 99% then right, because if you’re not a 1%er it’s not worth living. That said, I do fear my kid will live to see something we’ve made apocalyptic movies about. Hell, we all might.

tenacious_tuna 6y ago
I think you're making a leap in OP's reasoning: they didn't say that for _currently existing_ people it's better to not be existing. I suspect the point is more that it will be better for future generations to limit the _size of_ future generations, lest we increase the amount of strain on the climate/energy production/water scarcity/etc. I also think OPs reasoning has more to do with the considerations of inflicting the potentially post-apocalyptic future on those future generations: there is an arguable moral duty to ensure that whatever offspring you have will have a (generally) good life, and that if you aren't reasonably sure of that it's A Bad Thing to have said offspring.
- conductr 6y ago
  > they didn't say that for _currently existing_ people it's better to not be existing He said the guys kids would be better off if he didn’t have them. And basically said he had them for selfish reasons (kids make your life better) Seems like you’re the one making leaps, I read what was written
tshaddox 6y ago
There’s a big difference between never existing, and existing but then dying.
nescioquid 6y ago
It is antinatalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism), and an idea to which I'm not unsympathetic. Basically, life is suffering, and from the view of reducing the amount of suffering in the world, it is a good to abstain from bringing more beings into this world to suffer.

2lwxxtj 6y ago

I get the impression that you are not very happy in life.

samr71 6y ago

Such doom and gloom! You really believe the future is gonna be so bad that children would be better off not existing at all? The world has huge issues, sure, but it's still far better to be alive now than any time in human history. The only way the future could be worse is if this idea becomes mainstream and the prophecy self-fulfilling.

tenacious_tuna 6y ago
I think this is a rather short-sighted view; The future is not guaranteed to be better, especially not when we have lots of evidence of impending (1) massive climate disruption (2) water shortage (3) political polarization (4) economic imbalance, the list goes on. Saying "the only way" the world gets worse is if we don't have children is to ignore the potential for all of those effects to grow worse. It's certainly possible that we may overcome them and human life will continue on its merry way, but it's very unreasonable to ignore all these difficulties and the psychological effects they can have on new parents.... And on new children. What would your response be to a 9 year old having an existential crisis about the polar bears starving to death because of climate change, and the implications for human civilization, and civilization's apparent apathy towards that? "Don't worry kid, just make sure you have children of your own and everything will work out"?
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  > What would your response be to a 9 year old having an existential crisis about the polar bears starving to death because of climate change, and the implications for human civilization, and civilization's apparent apathy towards that? "Don't worry kid, just make sure you have children of your own and everything will work out"? Speaking as a new parent who did in fact have an existential crisis about this as a child, very very disappointed in both myself and the rest of us.
- samr71 6y ago
  All of the things you listed are solvable problems, with hundreds of thousands of people working tirelessly to solve them. Fear porn about the impending collapse of everything helps no one, and is the reason why that the 9 year old is having an existential crisis about polar bears at all. Should we worry about these things? Absolutely! But the incessant hysteria is counter productive. Us ceasing having children in a form of civilizational suicide is not a solution.