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aha EU pass holder here so in practice for job seeking I kind of include both Switzerland and Norway, but technically it is not EU one thing is what is on pays

aha EU pass holder here so in practice for job seeking I kind of include both Switzerland and Norway, but technically it is not EU one thing is what is on payscale another is what you see on the payslip, 60k+ in DE is not hard to get for senior dev

fortnum 6y ago
Still not EU and both examples are high-expense countries where wages naturally are higher too, but that does not solve the problem. And as for Germany, it shouldn't be 60+, but rather 80+ to match the expectation of being significantly more. The suggestion of moving simply is flawed.
- iExploder 6y ago
  you can get 80+ in Germany in big cities. what problem are you solving? no, you cant get rich by coding as an employee, anywhere. you can try to sweat your balls as a contractor + do tax magic and have a 'decent' living, or start a company and make a product - very risky. as job coders are 21st century factory workers, its not on lawyer/doctor/accountant level.
  - fortnum 6y ago
    We are talking about average here and 80+ is not average. The whole point was the the suggestion of moving would be a pointless exercise. > as job coders are 21st century factory workers, its not on lawyer/doctor/accountant level. Fair enough, but this proves the author's point. Development used to be on such a level and has steadily declined.
    - iExploder 6y ago
      > Fair enough, but this proves the author's point. Development used to be on such a level and has steadily declined. I agree, I know a few "old timers" and they seem to have it better in the early days. I guess this is the case with all human activity, over time it becomes optimized as know-how spreads to more people. The best professions long term are those where gate keeping is employed (license, nepotism, high creativity, people able to perform at top 1%), short term profession gets a boost from being "the new thing", which programing is not anymore.

fortnum 6y ago

Still not EU and both examples are high-expense countries where wages naturally are higher too, but that does not solve the problem. And as for Germany, it shouldn't be 60+, but rather 80+ to match the expectation of being significantly more. The suggestion of moving simply is flawed.

iExploder 6y ago
you can get 80+ in Germany in big cities. what problem are you solving? no, you cant get rich by coding as an employee, anywhere. you can try to sweat your balls as a contractor + do tax magic and have a 'decent' living, or start a company and make a product - very risky. as job coders are 21st century factory workers, its not on lawyer/doctor/accountant level.
- fortnum 6y ago
  We are talking about average here and 80+ is not average. The whole point was the the suggestion of moving would be a pointless exercise. > as job coders are 21st century factory workers, its not on lawyer/doctor/accountant level. Fair enough, but this proves the author's point. Development used to be on such a level and has steadily declined.
  - iExploder 6y ago
    > Fair enough, but this proves the author's point. Development used to be on such a level and has steadily declined. I agree, I know a few "old timers" and they seem to have it better in the early days. I guess this is the case with all human activity, over time it becomes optimized as know-how spreads to more people. The best professions long term are those where gate keeping is employed (license, nepotism, high creativity, people able to perform at top 1%), short term profession gets a boost from being "the new thing", which programing is not anymore.