6 ms·

There are practical reasons that getting rid of currency - or money I assume you mean - is a bad idea. It would be much more difficult to exchange goods and ser

There are practical reasons that getting rid of currency - or money I assume you mean - is a bad idea. It would be much more difficult to exchange goods and services if we had to barter for instance. But perhaps you have some alternative in mind that I haven't thought of.

rzodkiew 6y ago
I do believe that there are some solutions that we could (and will) come up with, but they do require radical shift of priorities in people's lives. Currently our society is just blinded by "chase money by all means" which was always a part of the humanity, but definitely got worse since Commercial Revolution, then even pushed further by Industrial Revolution. At the same time I feel like the pushback is finally slowly showing up in many parts of the society. I wholeheartedly agree that we definitely do need some vehicle of value, and it might as well be currencies as we know them now, but with some hoarding-prevention mechanisms built in, or maybe some other way to figure out a value of time you provide to the society. Right now we rely on free market for that, but is the coffee you buy in the morning of same value to you as it is to the person in the queue after you? And if that coffee helps you build more value to society than your fellow man for whatever the reason, maybe part of that difference could also be captured by the coffee producer as well. If price of coffee was expressed in something like a fractional unit of your value in a day, let's say 0.02u, then you'd pay the same price, yet with wildly different absolute values. This is just random thought, and it probably will fail in hundreds of ways, but maybe something to spark your imagination.
fabianhjr 6y ago
> It would be much more difficult to exchange goods and services if we had to barter for instance. But perhaps you have some alternative in mind that I haven't thought of. There has been very few research and development into decentralized economic planning. (Imagine if only a fraction of the development resources that have gone into High Frequency and Momentum Trading had been invested into Decentralized Economic Planning) https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Planned_economy#/Decentralized_planning https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Planned_economy#/Decentralized_p... I am quite sure many here would agree that the Economic Calculation Problem doesn't hold much water nowadays (or at least won't in the near future) with the available computation power. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Economic_calculation_problem https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Economic_calculation_problem
- rcstank 6y ago
  Isn't decentralized planning essentially the current economy? If I have a skill to provide a service, I can start my own business in my town to make a living. I don't have to accept currency as payment. I can more or less accept payment via other goods such as food for my family. In smaller towns this is still not unheard of. My father in law is a mechanic and many people pay him with goods rather than currency (he still accepts cash, however). If a competitor opened up next to him, they'd both then compete, thus trigger your decentralized planning since they both have to innovate or come up with methods to gain customers.
  - fabianhjr 6y ago
    > decentralized planning essentially the current economy No it isn't, decentralized economic planning involves communal ownership not private (shareholder) ownership which allows communal management and prioritizing the needs of people and not the wants of those with most money/capital. The current political-economy in most countries is Liberalism. ( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Economic_liberalism https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Economic_liberalism ) > If I have a skill to provide a service, I can start my own business in my town to make a living. If you have a skill then under decentralized economic planning you would provide it as needed and not start a business (own or otherwise) > I can more or less accept payment via other goods such as food for my family. In smaller towns this is still not unheard of. That would be barter, it is more common to accept non-currency IOUs when doing communal work / services rather than directly into goods/services. > If a competitor opened up next to him, they'd both then compete, thus trigger your decentralized planning since they both have to innovate or come up with methods to gain customers. In a decentralized planned economy if someone else wanted to work as a mechanic then they would cooperate rather than compete.
    - rcstank 6y ago
      What if Sharon is selling baskets for $10, and I found a revolutionary way to sell them for $9, I wouldn't be able to since I'd be required to share my trade secret with Sharon. What incentive would I have to innovate? In a perfect world, where there are no corrupt or selfish people, I suppose it could work, since we'd all be working towards a greater good. But that utopia doesn't exist, and possibly never will without stripping the rights of individuals.

rzodkiew 6y ago

I do believe that there are some solutions that we could (and will) come up with, but they do require radical shift of priorities in people's lives. Currently our society is just blinded by "chase money by all means" which was always a part of the humanity, but definitely got worse since Commercial Revolution, then even pushed further by Industrial Revolution. At the same time I feel like the pushback is finally slowly showing up in many parts of the society. I wholeheartedly agree that we definitely do need some vehicle of value, and it might as well be currencies as we know them now, but with some hoarding-prevention mechanisms built in, or maybe some other way to figure out a value of time you provide to the society. Right now we rely on free market for that, but is the coffee you buy in the morning of same value to you as it is to the person in the queue after you? And if that coffee helps you build more value to society than your fellow man for whatever the reason, maybe part of that difference could also be captured by the coffee producer as well. If price of coffee was expressed in something like a fractional unit of your value in a day, let's say 0.02u, then you'd pay the same price, yet with wildly different absolute values. This is just random thought, and it probably will fail in hundreds of ways, but maybe something to spark your imagination.

fabianhjr 6y ago

> It would be much more difficult to exchange goods and services if we had to barter for instance. But perhaps you have some alternative in mind that I haven't thought of. There has been very few research and development into decentralized economic planning. (Imagine if only a fraction of the development resources that have gone into High Frequency and Momentum Trading had been invested into Decentralized Economic Planning) https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Planned_economy#/Decentralized_planning https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Planned_economy#/Decentralized_p... I am quite sure many here would agree that the Economic Calculation Problem doesn't hold much water nowadays (or at least won't in the near future) with the available computation power. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Economic_calculation_problem https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Economic_calculation_problem

rcstank 6y ago
Isn't decentralized planning essentially the current economy? If I have a skill to provide a service, I can start my own business in my town to make a living. I don't have to accept currency as payment. I can more or less accept payment via other goods such as food for my family. In smaller towns this is still not unheard of. My father in law is a mechanic and many people pay him with goods rather than currency (he still accepts cash, however). If a competitor opened up next to him, they'd both then compete, thus trigger your decentralized planning since they both have to innovate or come up with methods to gain customers.
- fabianhjr 6y ago
  > decentralized planning essentially the current economy No it isn't, decentralized economic planning involves communal ownership not private (shareholder) ownership which allows communal management and prioritizing the needs of people and not the wants of those with most money/capital. The current political-economy in most countries is Liberalism. ( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Economic_liberalism https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Economic_liberalism ) > If I have a skill to provide a service, I can start my own business in my town to make a living. If you have a skill then under decentralized economic planning you would provide it as needed and not start a business (own or otherwise) > I can more or less accept payment via other goods such as food for my family. In smaller towns this is still not unheard of. That would be barter, it is more common to accept non-currency IOUs when doing communal work / services rather than directly into goods/services. > If a competitor opened up next to him, they'd both then compete, thus trigger your decentralized planning since they both have to innovate or come up with methods to gain customers. In a decentralized planned economy if someone else wanted to work as a mechanic then they would cooperate rather than compete.
  - rcstank 6y ago
    What if Sharon is selling baskets for $10, and I found a revolutionary way to sell them for $9, I wouldn't be able to since I'd be required to share my trade secret with Sharon. What incentive would I have to innovate? In a perfect world, where there are no corrupt or selfish people, I suppose it could work, since we'd all be working towards a greater good. But that utopia doesn't exist, and possibly never will without stripping the rights of individuals.