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Totally right. Remember that capital doesn't have a nation. Companies registered in the US have to comply with US laws. But a legal entity in Pakistan have to
by andrejserafim 6y ago
Totally right. Remember that capital doesn't have a nation. Companies registered in the US have to comply with US laws.
But a legal entity in Pakistan have to obide by those rules. And if it's profitable - they will.
Replace Pakistan with any other country name, the argument doesn't change. It's the law in that jurisdiction.
You can't really mix and match the legislation you like and don't like.
No idea if the particular law is just, but that's not the question. The question is - is it profitable to abide by it?
- babesh 6y agoFunny how Apple and Google are still fine with doing business in Pakistan.
- avianlyric 6y agoWhat exactly is your point?
- babesh 6y agoThey are hypocrites. They loudly proclaim how moral they are but when it is inconvenient/unprofitable their morality disappears.
- shadowgovt 6y agoit's more that their morality includes compliance with the laws of the states they operate in. It always has, and they will buck those laws on extremely rare occasions, usually when they believe they are seeing a mis-implementation of the laws, and (when outside the US) usually by ceasing to do business in the territory (see: Google's pullback from China). None of what we're seeing in Pakistan right now is new for tech company SOP. Google Maps shows different borders depending on the location of the originating query. Twitter masks certain tweets for users in Germany because some speech that's legal in the US is illegal in Germany and the penalties are harsh for propagating it. It's a big world, and the US doesn't have a monopoly on law or ethics in the international community.
- babesh 6y agoThat is a load of bullshit. Google tried to get back into China (see Project Dragonfly). Did China change the offending laws in the meantime? How are those Tianamen Square searches doing in China on those Apple phones? What kind of person or entity hides under the pretense that it’s the law and you have to always follow it? Nuremberg trials defense? Separate but equal? South Africa anyone? All I have to do is to do is change the law and then suddenly it’s moral. Slavery moral one day, not moral the next. Moral on this side of the line but not moral on the other. One day the emperor says that red hats are against the law, the next day you can only wear red hats. Wait, 1984! A morality grounded on adherence to the law is no morality at all. It only lets the levers of law be pulled by those with other ideas on morality or the lack thereof.
- shadowgovt 6y agoIt's important not to run so fast from 1984 that one runs into Snow Crash. If corporations are setting morality apart from the law, they become another authority. Then we have a different set of problems; at least in some countries, the government authority is elected. CEOs aren't elected by the people, and the emperor has nothing on the whims of Jeff Bezos or Jack Dorsey.
- babesh 6y agoBoth are problematic and both are occurring right now.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago> "their morality includes compliance with the laws of the states they operate in. It always has" I will believe it when they pay their taxes
- shadowgovt 6y agoThey pay all the taxes they are legally required to pay.
- zepto 6y agoThey might think that it’s better for people to have access to their technology than not to, even if certain apps are unavailable. Would it be ethical for them to abandon all of their customers in Pakistan over this?
- babesh 6y agoYes it would be ethical to abandon their customers over this. Apparently religious freedom isn’t where you draw the line. What other rights are you willing to abandon?
- babesh 6y agoAlso those mostly aren’t their customers in Google’s case. Their customers are mostly the advertisers.
- zepto 6y agoOk then, let’s say users.
- zepto 6y agoTheir customers live in a country without religious freedom. Do you think Apple has the power to change that? If they don’t do business there their customers are objectively worse off. Not only do they not have religious freedom, but they also don’t have access to technology. That seems wrong to me. I wonder what people in Pakistan would say? Would most of them really want these companies to leave?
- babesh 6y agoI am saying that the companies are hypocrites. They don’t have to leave. Just expose their hypocrisy and lies.
- babesh 6y agoAlso, let’s take it even further. How about the right to vote? Would it ok to do business in a country where women don’t have the right to vote? How about apartheid? How about slavery? How about genocide? Where is your line and on what basis would you make it? Do you even have a line?
- Bud 6y agoPlease cite sources showing Apple "loudly proclaiming how moral" it is.
- babesh 6y agoPlease read more carefully. Tim Cook “ At Apple, our mission has been and always will be to create technology that empowers people to change the world for the better.”
- babesh 6y agohttps://youtu.be/x3nFe7EpWAY https://youtu.be/x3nFe7EpWAY
- judge2020 6y agoYour mistake was believing CEOs. The only thing you can count on is the invisible hand of capitalism, and today it requires both: - operating in (wealthy) oppressive regimes - denouncing those same oppressive regimes
- babesh 6y agohttps://www.cnet.com/news/tim-cook-says-privacy-is-an-issue-of-morality/ https://www.cnet.com/news/tim-cook-says-privacy-is-an-issue-... Tim Cook says privacy is an issue of morality
- babesh 6y agoCook, though, presented the issue in deeply political terms. He said: "We believe that people have a fundamental right to privacy. The American people demand it, the constitution demands it, morality demands it."
- babesh 6y agoTim Cook: As reported by TechCrunch, he said: "I'm speaking to you from Silicon Valley, where some of the most prominent and successful companies have built their businesses by lulling their customers into complacency about their personal information. They're gobbling up everything they can learn about you and trying to monetize it. We think that's wrong. And it's not the kind of company that Apple wants to be."
- pknerd 6y agoThen they will have to leave entire subcontinent and middle east.
- babesh 6y agoYes.
- AlexandrB 6y agoSo much for: "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." [1] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Gilmore https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Gilmore
- EEMac 6y agoAsk Parler how well that works in the new era of FAANG dominance.
- IdiocyInAction 6y agoThat quote was from a different era where the internet was seen as a bringer of free information and hope, unfortunately.